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Originally Posted by GreyJazz90
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07-14-2011 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by GreyJazz90
I'm glad this group is picking through the material. So much of what we "learn" only comes to life when we live with it long enough to have a revelation with it.
David
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Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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cycles work is still in progress, but I came up with this brief document, that I plan to use during my holidays, next weeks.
I've done my best to debug it, but still I'm sharing it with no guarantees... if you find any error, let me know.
It's "basic", without all the permutation, voicings, etc etc, but I think has all the elements to work on. Hope you like it, and that it will be useful for you too.
positive feedback appreciated... they're pleasing
negative feedbacks even more... they let this thing improve
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Originally Posted by e_del
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Originally Posted by jsepguitar
I used LibreOffice, the free alternative to Excel...
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What is modal compression?
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I've scanned the introductory comments from the first two almanacs as well as some excerpts from vol. iii which are definitely worth reading for people who don't own them. It's a little over 30 pages of material.
I'm having trouble attaching the pdf to this post so if you're interested you can email me jonahcaplan@gmail.com.
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I ask myself the question this way. Mick publishes the Advancing Guitarist in 1987 with the attitude prevailing throughout: go figure this out, go explore, go make decisions, go discover the possibilities. Why, 20 years later, does he feel compelled to make an exhaustive list of these possibilities? What did he realize which transitioned him from writing one kind of book to writing what is basically the total opposite kind of book? How do they complement each other? Maybe the most interesting question having compiled these lists is, what still isn't there?Last edited by jcaplan; 07-15-2011 at 04:58 PM.
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Maybe he has received complaints about his book, lacking explanations or something. I still see some parts of the book as criptic, but sometimes you understand what he's trying to say (maybe too late because you already learn that in some other place).
Maybe he didn't want to try to tell anybody what's right or wrong.
P.S. email sent!
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Originally Posted by jcaplan
If you may, it's like an explorer in early 1400's Europe says "I have geometric proof that the world is round. You can go any direction and find new worlds if you take these navigational tools with you." Fast forward 20 years and he comes back with a chest full of maps. He says "These are the maps of a place to the north east of here. There's plenty more, and this will not tell you about the plants, animals or weather there, you will have to take some maps and create your own country." So it seems the opposite, but it's really just another door in different form.
He did publish a volume of factorial rhythms too, ways of looking at rhythmic groupings so you could explore phrasing in a permutable way. That one he did in 1 volume.
The modal compression begins to explore alternative harmonies that don't fit into the diatonic harmonic framework.
I don't think the almanac is to be taken at face value, something to be attacked in any particular order. It's a way for a person, or a group to discover a way of hearing, and find the pages they like enough to put into your own sound.
But that's just me. I might be way off base. And I'll find something there too.
David
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I like that answer quite a bit David! I had this breakthrough moment once listening to Lenny Breau play all the things. He came in with what sounded like the most beautiful chord I'd ever heard and I was itching to find out what it was and the answer predictably was... not very much. a root, seventh and third. But there's this sensitivity to space in the way the chords are voiced and connect with each other that is created by the subtraction of notes rather than addition. I find that fascinating and it's those sounds that I'm most motivated to explore personally (1 2 5, 1 5 7, 3 5 7, 1 4 5) Does that make me a botanist or a geologist or an ornithologist or dendrologist? I've lately been trying to comp entire choruses on tunes using only one kind of voicing as an exercise, maybe two or three inversions per chord where possible. But the spacing I'm achieving I owe directly to my work with the almanacs. It just never would have otherwise occurred to me.
I think the less metaphorical way of putting your point is that we're provided with a means to achieve a much higher degree of precision and specialization, of sensitivity and aural awareness, than would otherwise be possible without these references.
Also, could you be more specific about the modal compression? How is it different from playing outside or using whole tone or diminished scales and chords? I've never heard that term before.Last edited by jcaplan; 07-16-2011 at 01:58 AM.
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Also, could you be more specific about the modal compression? How is it different from playing outside or using whole tone or diminished scales and chords? I've never heard that term before.
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Originally Posted by jcaplan
Anybody else is free to discuss or share what they've gotten so far of course, I just think Berklee Press might look favouribly on their author's material not appearing prominently in an online forum before it's available in stores.
In the meanwhile...
Maybe this is off the original thread topic but very much along these lines though, and that's the topic of hybrid chord progression. This is a method of grouping chords, not by how they fit into the existing harmony of a piece, but by the tension they convey while converging on a particular chord, or point in a piece.
It's a way of playing, arranging, chord soloing given to me by Jack Pezanelli (an amazing player, teacher, chord soloist- plays a duo with Sheryl Bailey and was Kurt Rosenwinkel's teacher for 3 semesters.) He formulated this with some acoustical analysts at MIT. I happen to be working on it a lot this summer and if there are those out there who are looking for new sounds and ways of structuring "outside" chords (of which modal compression will fall) ,maybe we could turn these ideas loose. Everytime I hear Jack play these, or I use them, people always say "Hold it! What did you just do there?" Any takers?
David
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Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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well, first of all the method.. just works! :-)
I think that it relies on the bass/triad fixed ratio,that gives the "flavour", and the top note melody that "guides" the ear, overriding all the harmonic incongruences (melody wins!)...
I'm not that good at playing these things on the fly, but I used it to arrange a few bars of a song, to make an intro, and it worked perfectly.
It's kind of constant structure motion... maybe just better
And I never applied that while soloing.
My opininon (VERY low profile...) is that this thing works when used sparsely, to create unusual tension, but cannot be used e.g. for arranging a whole piece.
My experience is that when you introduce fixed structures in music (like wholetone scale, or diminished scale, or constant structures, or these fixed-ratio harmonizations), you "blur" the harmony a bit in an interesting way, but the risk is that after a while all songs will sound the same...
But when i heard it for the first time i was KO for a week!
Another interesting point is also that it works for MAJOR triads... I didn't understand if Jack hadn't time to explore other triads qualities, or if more simply tis method doesn't work for minor triads.
After all Root, third and fifth are also the first harmonics you encounter, and the strongest... maybe this could be the (unwritten) explaination...
I'm going to stay away from keyboard for some days now... when I'm back I'll look for a little PDF I wrote (I'm better on computers than on guitar)... if it will pop out in my hard disk, I'll post it.
But in the meanwhile, if you will, have a look at Pezanelli's masterclasses... they really are worth their price...
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Love this thread.
Is there anyone in the San Francisco Bay Area that would be interested in working on this stuff together. If so, send me a PM.
Also, if anyone is interested in selling any volumes of the Voice-Leading Almanac's, I am interested.
Steve
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Originally Posted by brwnhornet59
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Thanx Grey! I really appreciate that in depth answer. Great idea! Wish I had someone to practice it with.
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Originally Posted by e_del
So here are the hybrid structures:
Most stable- least disturbance- to most tension. I put them in numericals cause that's how I study them. All triads are Major. Use any inversion/voicing of the triad.
(these are so redundant, I don't use them myself)
Triad/1
Triad/5
Triad/3
(these I tend to study within groups of 3, mild, medium and high tension. It just makes it easier for me to assimilate the sounds and chord shapes to)
Triad/4
Triad/6
Triad/2
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Triad/-3
Triad/b7
Triad/b6
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Triad/#7
Triad/b2
Triad/#4
Now do NOT look at these as functional chords. Don't think "oh that's a rootless -7#9" or anything like that. They are little episodes of tension in themselves. Jack looks at it like "dialing in a tension" and he numbers each one, so he says "I'll go from a #3, to a #7 and then #11.
I'll take a voicing, move it down the neck in whole steps and increase the tension as I go. At some point I can find a dominant 7th chord that can be stepped into and that will resolve me back to the tonality of the piece. That's just how I'm using them.
Sometimes I'll keep the whole step movement but switch the triad form to a different inversion. That switches up the sound but the tension quality is still there.
Let's experiment, ask questions, offer advice and see what this toy can turn into. We can discuss putting these in a tune at some point.
Have fun
David
a little note-when we start to get into spread voicings, or even some of these, fingerstyle is really useful. If you're a strum through player, you'll need to skip strings at some point.Last edited by TH; 07-17-2011 at 07:09 AM.
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Originally Posted by TruthHertz
But anyway, from a pure fingering point of view, I cannot avoid to look at some of the hybrids as well-known chord shapes... my fault
Speaking with your notation:
Triad/1 - Triad/5 - Triad/3 = major triad with its 3 different notes in the bass
Triad/6 = regular min7/maj6 chord shape
Triad/2 = sus chord shape (e.g. Bb/C at 6th fret)
Triad/b7 = dominant chord with 7 in the bass
Triad/b6 = maj7#5 chord shape
Triad/#7 = regular maj chord with 7 in the bass
Interesting the fact that in these Hybrids you find maj7, min7 and dominant shapes (with different dissonance degree)... this could help getting into the system by tring to harmonize a melody by moving usual chord shapes, but with different criteria.
Don't think to the function but ony to the sound of the chord while using it to play the melody with its top note...
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In book I on the 7 note scale level, Mick presents two 4 note triad/bass structures that he voice leads through the cycles in six voicing types.
TBN #1------1 5 7 9
TBN #2------1 7 9 11
TBN stands for triad over bass note.
In inversion the bass note becomes another chord tone.
G/C in drop 2 becomes
C G B D
D B C G
G C D B
B D G C
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Hey guys, I've been glancing over this thread and due to my ignorance, I don't get it, especially the el del charts. However, this might be a shot in the dark, but this concept might similiar to Coltrane's approach to single line soloing. I read in an interview, that sometimes he would use triads to create melodic lines via harmony. For instance, if the chord was a C7, he would use a C7 triad, then Eb7, E7, and finish on a F major triad, all this over the C7. This is probably not what you guys are talking about, but it's worth a try eh?
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I've been working on something that is definitely the product of a long time spent with the almanacs.
Video, sheet music and explanation can be found at jonahcaplan.blogspot.com
The tune is Very Early. I think it shows how to embellish through passing tones and fingerpicking the kind of lovely shapes the almanacs can help us discover to create intricate textures out of basic structures and larger intervals. I'd love some feedback.
Jonah
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This thread is very nice. When you first get the MG voices moving on the fretboard it come to mind the Pavanas of Luis Milan, the Fantasias of Francesco da Milano and the explicit geometry pervading the music of J.S. Bach.
See for example how Bach dealt with issues related with moving patterns (the cool crab canon over a Möbius strip!):
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x82...ab-canon_music
Thanks for the nice ongoing work in this threadLast edited by palz; 09-17-2011 at 12:31 AM.
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Originally Posted by jcaplan
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