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Yes, that's a great catch, J.Lee!
Originally Posted by J.Lee
I totally missed that, even when the title in The Advancing Guitarist page 81 clearly says Three-Part 4th Voicings Over Bass Notes. I did the 'Match the descriptions' task earlier this summer (I'm up for a separate discussion on that topic, too) and enjoyed a few more hours, working with that page, today.
Until you posted this observation I hadn't noticed the direct connection between p.81 of AG and the Almanacs. There's another huge cache of information within these '22 useful structures' (i.e. various chords that link directly to the major and/or the two minor scales) and '5 Weird Structures' (i.e. three-part 4ths that form semitone clusters, and which don't map directly onto the main major and minor scales but, instead, steer us towards the Hungarian minor scale and further beyond).
Also, since you mentioned it, I think that at the top of p.81 there's a # sign missed, on the G in the ninth chord along. This then matches up with the third 'weird structure' at the bottom of the page. Otherwise the CDGC# chord prior to this simply repeats itself and the CDG#C# chord doesn't appear in the main sequence at all.
In Almanac Vol. 3 there's a set of similar pages called 'What's on top of 3-part chords'. There 120 different three-note voicings, all with highest note C, are set out (and then transposed, in full, eleven times). Even a short while spent playing through such material is fascinating and challenging. As with the Almanacs in general, having such reference material visible and set out in full, at least for 'a start on this project', provides a great reference and study check-list, which can then gradually be taken 'off book' and internalised.
All the best, Mick W
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09-06-2022 07:02 PM
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What are some of the approaches people have taken to expand or
re-contextualize Almanac material or perhaps streamlining/simplifying?
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I’ve posted some stuff above that may or may not make any sense. Originally Posted by bako
Im not at the level some guys here are at with it, but I like to focus on the ways the voices move more than the inversion of theoretical roots or degrees.
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Yeah, David's recent post on MSRP got me noticing in more concrete ways (what was probably obvious to many) that the interval movement of all the chord voices stays diatonically consistent. Each rotation lasting only as long as there are voices in the chord. So each line has exactly the same notes and movements but is rhythmically staggered in relation to the other voices.
Are you practicing a single note or dyad way?
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not yet. Just basic bitch drop grips Originally Posted by bako
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Hi Bako, that's a really good question. Originally Posted by bako
I'm still using the Almanacs fairly regularly as a practice resource. Recently I've been going 'off book' by improvising Almanac-inspired exercises. These usually involve playing cyclic sequences ('events' or 'episodes', to use Vol. 3's terminology) – with arpeggios, or repeated block chords, or linear patterns – I try to play musically and choose a time-signature, style and feel, combining this with work on timbre, and/or control of voice dynamics, or explorations of the extreme registers of the guitar where the voicings become less familiar.
I also sometimes work at various pages from The Advancing Guitarist and Almanacs away from the guitar. I find it useful to concentrate hard and recall the various cycles and sequenced voicings that I've particulary enjoyed exploring. On a good day, with no distractions, I can then 'hear' each of the triads in my 'mind's ear' as I visualize these sequences while imagining my fingers moving on the fingerboard. This is also great preparation for practice and I'm hoping to cultivate this more, in the next few years, since it's taken a long time getting even this far with it.
The most obvious 'streamlining/simplifying' idea that I use is to reverse each pattern that I'm working on, treating the six cycles as three pairs (2/7, 3/6 and 4/5) rather than six individual sequences. Another idea (also mentioned up-thread a while ago) is to convert a familiar triad sequence into a set of cycling 3-part fourth voicings simply by raising the third in each triad. This made some of the less- familiar fourths voicings make more sense and easier to internalise.
Another simplifying approach, which I used recently (when trying unsuccessfully to solve the TBN2 'arrows puzzle' mentioned above in my post #983) was playing the cycle line-by-line, using overdubs with a Boss RC-50 looper. Doing so really emphasises the MSRPs and their intervallic details, which can get submerged when simultaneously playing three or four voices, particularly at slower tempos.
I'll get around to posting some recorded examples of what I'm describing, during the next few months.
Thanks too, once again, to everyone who has contributed to this amazing thread,
Kind regards, Mick W.
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For me the 4ths have been a bit harder to internalize than the diatonic triads and sevenths because I found it trickier to associate with the same clarity to the function of a given chord. While it is also true and important that each triad and seventh chord can also function superimposed as several structures, they all represent their basic function in a straight ahead way. Whereas with 4th chords!@#$%^&*()....less clear.Another idea (also mentioned up-thread a while ago) is to convert a familiar triad sequence into a set of cycling 3-part fourth voicings simply by raising the third in each triad. This made some of the less- familiar fourths voicings make more sense and easier to internalise.
What is a 4th chord best representation of a I chord in the major scale?
MG presents it as DGC (CDG), a reasonable place to start. One could also make a case for GCF (CFG) or EAD or BEA or ADG or CFB.
I really like this idea of referencing back and forth to the triad and 7th cycles and modifying a note (or two) ex. CEG>CFG or CEG>CDG. This links it to a starting reference structural definition while still maintaining it's glorious ambiguity to effectively represent so many different functions.
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There's the million dollar million page question. Originally Posted by bako
This is a post about how I'd approach the cycle 1) visually, navigating the fingerboard 2) aurally, from an individual voice leading to the next root in the cycle 3) discerning the patterns of movement within the MSRP and addressing how these can be used as springboards for improvisations.
A few things you need to be proficient with (get these internalized to you don't need to figure them out as you're doing this)
Know your chord family in root and 3 inversions. All chord qualities.
Be aware of the relative positions of scale notes from each of the roots on each string and be able to find them instantly.
Be able to recognize, by sound and interval, the chord tones of each chord. If you're just grabbing and you don't know a 5th from a 3rd, then voice leading from the 7th to the root of the next chord is not going to mean anything to you, for example.
Now all of these things are a given to a player of a certain level of player. It's often players who have this in their toolbox who are most restless as to where to go next and it's for these players that the Almanacs are really the gold mine.
If you can't tell granite from sandstone, it's going to be hard to know how to mine for a vein of gold.
All this being said, the Almanacs really helped me sharpen the functional use of these skills and that's the REAL value for me.
Starting out, I'm using cycle 2, diatonic major scale, drop 2, 7th chords. This is kinda a random useful stab to begin. The almanac has hundreds of cycle patterns of which this happens to be one I like.
Know your drop 2 chords and be able to play them up and down the neck diatonically in all inversions. If you say easy peazy, we're ready to go!
MSRP
Cycle 2 is diatonic, here's cycle 6
The big picture on the fingerboard map (this map is for cycle 6 which I'll use in the following post)
So this is our reference post.
I think I'll put my interpretation in the following post.
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Navigating by root movement
This is the way I find easy to see on the guitar. You see on the map that each diatonic root degree has a location on the fingerboard. We all know this, it's just laid out as a totality on this map.
I'm beginning with drop 2 root in the bass. That's green I on the 5th string (I'm using middle 4 strings grouping, you'll need to know all).
Play C Major chord (root on 3rd fret or better yet on 15. Root is in Bass voice)
Your next chord in cycle 6 has the root on the Alto Voice 3rd string. You can find the first inversion A minor chord with the root on the 3rd string.
Your next chord, the IV chord has the root in the Tenor Voice, 4th string, F Maj 2nd inversion.
Your next chord, the II chord, has the root in the top or Soprano Voice, 2nd string, and this is the 3rd inversion of the minor chord.
And now we're on to the next chord, the VII -7b5 chord and the root returns to the bass voice on 5th string (if you run out of neck you simply switch to the next lower set of strings.)
Your next cycle 6 chord is V7 chord, root is tossed over to the Alto voice.
And E-7 is your III chord in the Tenor voice.
You'll notice a pattern of root movement: B A T S, Bass, Alto, Tenor and Soprano, Bass, Alto, Tenor, Soprano. That's the arrows on the big map.
If you start to hear and see in Roman Numerals, it's going to be an AHA! moment. If you're letter navigating, look for the pattern and listen for it.
In a following post, I'm going to address questions about this navigation and then move to the next method, Following a Voice to the root.Last edited by Jimmy blue note; 09-11-2022 at 03:30 PM.
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Sidenote challenge. Apply the above to the cycle 2 page in post 1008 and you'll see how you can go UP the scale and go DOWN the neck at the same time! COOL!
This is the very movement that brought Mike Stern into the Almanac family.
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Re: Seventh chords and their patterns of root movement: B A T S, (Bass, Alto, Tenor and Soprano) etc. etc.
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Thanks again, jimmy blue note,
re. root movements etc, that's another highly useful device. I've never systematised the root movements in the different cycles and voicings before, even though these always form a clear pattern, in each cycle.
Looking at Vol.1's sevenths voicings pages, we can make another back-of-an-envelope simplification for the various voice movements (or at least provide another way of thinking of them). I sketched the rough A4 chart, above, to explores the symmetries of the seventh chords' root movements within the inversions of all six voicings, 'cycling' through the SATB voices. This might interest someone. Sounding the root, then the full chord, when playing through the cycles this way was useful - as you said it would be - and I found that the ears-leading-the-fingers took over from the more usual brain & fingers mechanism, quite quickly.
The catch is that to do this efficiently, right down the whole page, I'll need all of the inversions of the less common voicings (like the big double-drop2, drop 3s) under my fingers. That'll keep me busy next weekend!
re. symmetries, looking at my chart it's interesting how cycles 2 & 3 share the same sequences of root movements, as do 6 & 7, while cycles 4 & 5 share pairs of root movements. The 2/3 and 6/7 columns reverse vertically as well, and there's also a more strange 'partial-mirror' axis occurring halfway down the 4/5 column.
Best wishes,
Mick W
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Some sidenotes and observations. The arrows will give you an indication of whether the progression in general moves up or down the neck. The fewer arrows, the more common tones in the movement and the more common tones, the greater the sense of harmonic subtlety and blend.
Seeing progressions in terms of root movement really simplifies the process (if you are cognizant of the locations of the scale/root notes you're moving to.)
Here you can also see that you can break the chord family and this is nicely and maybe more simply done by targeting a root movement in the outer voices and switching to another chord type. For instance, you can switch from drop 2 to drop 2/drop 4 or drop 3 quite easily and expand the intervallic spread or contract it to a tighter voicing. These Almanac cycles really helped me to treat inner voices with control and great appreciation. We, as guitarists, are largely aware of voice contribution as an evolving thing: First we work with Bass voice as root of chord, then the next stage is to work the upper Soprano voice as chord melodic strategy, and for a lot of people that's it. But I remember Mick saying to me "It's the middle voice movement; that's the scheise" about the time when he was working with Wolfgang, ha ha. The cycles, in whatever strange reprogramming makes inner voice movement the next step and they serve to awaken the ear and fingering awareness to them.
Also, just following the cycles through until you can play them smoothly and somewhat intuitively, starts to allow more than a 'root position chord grab' approach but sharpens your ear to hear a chord in its entirety: It's good as an ear training etude.
As far as how long until you can start to use this, that's dependent on so much (prior experience with chord voicings, your ear, fingerboard familiarity...), but overall the first cycles you attack will take much longer to assimilate, but it's kind of an exponential curve as you become fluent. When that happens, you'll notice peripheral movements of voices and counterpoint without even knowing you're doing it. This has been a common experience with the players I've worked with.
I'm very excited to see what others find over the next few months.
I'll share what I'm working on now. Any chord in the cycle can be altered, and it will resolve in the next chord. This obfuscates the inherent identity of the present chord, especially in inversions, and the movement of chords gets a real dissonant propulsion and feeling of flow. This is what I mean when I say these cycles are only a starting point and the lack of instruction adds to the personalization of this material.
It's MUCH more than just a mathematical probability exercise, it's truly a systematic programming of linear sound and how your fingers can learn to sense that movement.Last edited by Jimmy blue note; 09-12-2022 at 03:06 AM.
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Here's a couple of thing that fell into place for me in the last few days:
1. From reading earlier posts on this thread and practicing the cycles, I knew that in cycle 4 there are two separate non-overlapping sets of 14 chords. Also, cycle 6 contains a cycle 4 consisting of every other chord in the cycle 5 sequence. Since cycle 6 is 28 chords, this accounts for 14 cycle 4 chords. So I wondered is there another cycle 6 that contains the other 14 chords of cycle 4? Starting from different inversions of I in cycle 6 I tried to find a new cycle 6, without success. You all know the answer - I didn't get it until I looked more closely at the cycle 6 diagram JBN posted in #1008.
2. I've been practicing 7th chords in cycle 6 for maybe a couple of weeks. Only today did I notice that the single voice change to the next chord in the sequence is alway to the root of that next chord.
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YES! This is the very point of the next chapter I will post: Identifying a voice that leads to the root of the next chord. It's consistent and it requires a finer trained ear, so I was going to wait a little while for that introduction. Originally Posted by J.Lee
I've been practicing 7th chords in cycle 6 for maybe a couple of weeks. Only today did I notice that the single voice change to the next chord in the sequence is alway to the root of that next chord.
Stay tuned.
In the meanwhile, I'm looking forward to other amazing revelations. Isn't this truly incredible, that these harmonic 'etudes' can inform new chord progressions that were never even imagined prior? How once one can feel the thread of voices that these can lead out of and back into a chord progression that is familiar yet brand new in sound?
I kinda see these as little harmonic 'gardens' within a piece that can be cultivated into large wildernesses of complex yet seemingly effortless and logical progressions.
Anyway, yeah, systems in systems and the listener only hears "What IS that?"
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To add a little light relief... I'm reading Ernst Toch's The Shaping Forces in Music, which is on the recommended reading list given at the end of Almanac Vol. 3. This short paragraph, 'on the vastness of harmonic variety', has what may (or may not) be an interesting coincidence:
'Nor need we, speaking of this vastness, be vague about its numerical realities. In passing, it might well be worthwhile to take a more precise account of such harmonic possiblities.'
In Pas(s)ing?
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Over lunch on Tuesday I was on the patio with Jules. As we were talking, he mentioned he was reading Toch's iconic work. Yeah, it's a clubhouse where all the heavies hang. Originally Posted by Mick Wright
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I found this among the comments on a youtube video about the almanacs from Jimmy Blue Note.
(We all need more stuff to read)
2 years ago
What's written in those books can be thought of as a mere jumping off
point, as dense and as challenging as they are straight from the book.
Those cycles, when arpeggiated as eighth or sixteenth notes for linear
patterns that are out of this world. I've heard sax players use the cycles
in lines that are jaw dropping.
Take a pattern based on the melodic minor scale and you have applications
that have altered dominant and lydian dominant sounds without ever sounding
like a scale or an exercise. Change a cycle within its run and move it up a
half step and you've got tritone dom 7#11 sounds Michael Brecker would have
been proud of, as a matter of fact, Mike Brecker played with Mick about the
time Mick was working with this stuff.
There are patterns and forms in these books you can lose yourself in, and
once they're down and you start using chromatic approach notes and even
approach chords by superimposing different cycles and key centres, any
player can invent uses for the forms within to make lines that defy
analysis to the normal ear, but are absolutely tonal in their eventual
resolution.
Take a cycle that's run through, put it into an odd meter grouping or
accent them off the time you're working with and the pattern is intact but
the effect is really stunning. Once you have a pattern down, accent it with
a polytonal bass line and what was at first beautifully intriguing becomes
WHAT?
This material has been assimilated and owned by Ben Monder. He sounds kind
of "modern", some might say.
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By the way any idea when the books will be published again?
Thanks,
Uli
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I'm collecting and compiling interviews and contributions from musicians who are actively using the materials in their music. This is the dilemma of the ever unfolding use of these almanacs. Originally Posted by Gearhead
Originally put out as a Batteries Not Included presentation, 95% of the people who bought it found it unusable. I wanted to address this in a form that gave user contributed insights (many of which I wanted to get through our cooperative contributions here on this forum, on this thread), but it turned out that as dedicated advancing guitarists were forced to find their own order in the ostensibly chaotic work, their approaches were hugely and often radically different, reflecting their own theoretical and practical DNA.
I will send out PDF's of the original works with a voluntary option for any contributions to the project. If you requested one and I hadn't gotten around to it, please renew your requests through PM here. I can send out the 'unannotated' version at the speed of light. You'll need to print it out yourself (which I do recommend in working with this).
I do want to avoid pigeonholing the almanacs into one, or a few people's approaches, and preclude the things you come up with on your own. That's why I've liked this Forum approach. The greatest most jaw dropping things have come from ways I NEVER imagined (like Mike Bono's use of the cycles with alternating symmetrical diminished voice leading...WOW!) so it's been slow in coming and ever expanding.
You might pick up on the fact that the Almanacs are of most deeply utilized by those who have the knowledge and persistence to struggle through to their own breakthroughs but for the many, the new edition can serve to assist in an insightful glimpse into the potential within.
Stay tuned, PM and put aside a LOT of time to work on this. The payoff for the Advancing guitarist can be life changing.
Hope this is somewhat informative if not useful. Thanks for being patient.
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Wow, all. Thanks for the super posts. Looking forward to reading them properly when I have time.
I'm back teaching in the school and also privately most mornings and evenings so am back to pre Covid busyness ( which is both good and bad).
Anyhow I have a few gigs coming up too and just dabbled with the 3 part 4th chords that I posted in the video higher up this thread.
I still remember them (and more) so at the next gig I'll do an improv with them as an intro to a tune.
I guess that this is my aim. Playing this stuff live ( where I can and where it fits), spending a load of time with it and then have it seep into my playing naturally. Can't wait.
I actually shouldn't accept anymore gigs so that I can concentrate on this stuff more
Unfortunately money talks
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Patience. Don't push it until you feel it. It'll come and you won't even realize it. Try creating little etudes from sections of cycles. If your segment ends in the II chord, there's your dovetail into the piece via the turnaround. If you create a segment that cycles to the V chord, use that to get back to the I. Practice that, and your ear and fingers will learn to move cyclically rather than merely following the diatonicism of the piece. Reharm in 4 voices. Originally Posted by Liarspoker
Your ear will tell you what works; it's not formulaic, or it's not music until it comes from the ear.
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'...Suddenly you remember back to the time when you were practicing a lot but not playing any gigs: Originally Posted by Liarspoker
• Wow! I wish I had the chance to practice as much now as I did back then!
Boy, if I had only known then what I know that I don't know now, I would have done it a lot differently.
Now, let's say that suddenly (as if by magic) all the gigs stop ...'
(The Advancing Guitarist, 114)
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That is me down to a T Originally Posted by Mick Wright
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So true innit. I was thinking of it today. I think I’ve got a bit better at accepting how things are. For example I’ve not had many gigs this year and I think I’ve enjoyed it as an opportunity to practice with a depth I’d never usually have time to. It can be hard to find motivation sometimes though. Originally Posted by Mick Wright
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