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Originally Posted by Jeremy Hillary Boob Ph.D
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02-19-2011 11:29 PM
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Here's neat link with his guitar.
http://benedettoguitars.com/artists/bert-ligon/Last edited by JonnyPac; 02-21-2011 at 03:45 PM.
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I emailed the author, Bert. What a cool guy! He's super nice on top of his solid musicianship/knowledge. He sent me a cool article on linear thinking in chords. I'll go through it tomorrow. It will be available in the future at his college website. Stay tuned.
I'm sending him my book to check out. My revised edition will be designed to supplement his works with the guitar-friendly diagrams and TAB.
Again, I gotta say the Bert is the man!
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That's very cool man! Keep us posted. Originally Posted by JonnyPac
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JohnnyPac, I wish you had *already* done this. By the time your book is out---and I commend you on that---I will have already worked out such things for myself with Bert's "Linear Harmony."
)
He seems like a great guy and good teacher. Lot of great material on his website. Can you tell me more about this *practice* book? (I own "Linear Harmony" and got "Jazz Theory Resources" from the library. I wonder what his practice book is like and what I might adopt / adapt from it.)
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My book is available and it's 95% in line with Bert already, but I want to add a few definitions and his RNA system. It's kind of an oxymoron that my book is CST and linear... the two "conflicting" schools of thought. Not to overdo it, but in science, new theories don't always replace old ones, they envelope and build off of them into something broader. I think adding a linear model to standard CST fills the gaps. It adds the 4th dimension of time in to the equation, which is absolutely necessary to make real music.
Bert's practice book is solid. The 2nd Ed is huge. It will take the most time and effort to apply out of all of the volumes. There are boatloads of patterns and ideas. Less excerpts from actual jazz players, but well thought out exercises that build way more then just finger "chops". I'll be working out of it for many years, I'm sure. Highly recommended. ...of course, I wish there was TAB (guilty smile)...
The article he sent to me was interesting... I'm not sure how I feel about it just yet. It actually has TAB and a lot of examples. Definitely food for thought.
Here's an excerpt:
"Never play chords when comping." This usually gets the attention of my guitar and piano students. I'll say this after hearing them comp using learned voicings that have no real sense of direction. "Play melodies." I want them to hear and think about where those chords came from and where they might lead, and make choices based on musical phrases that rise and fall. We hear music in time, which is linear. I want them to consider every chord they play as part of a larger melodic shape.
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"Never play chords when comping"? Dude, you should have used that as the title of a THREAD and then explained the thought behind it and asked for input. That's an idea worth kicking around!
Btw, what article did he send you? Is it one from his website? I'd like to read that.
Right now, I'm doing his 1.1 exercise (-all three outlines) in all 12 keys. Well, the major ii-V-1. Next week I'll start on the minor. Playing that through all 12 keys without pause---and starting in different places--is increasing my fretboard knowledge, which is always a plus. I like his "blues" outlines too. Next, Rhythm and ATTYA. Busy busy me...
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I posted the thread. Here's the link too. Dude keeps me busy too!
http://www.music.sc.edu/ea/Jazz/Line...%20Voicing.htmLast edited by JonnyPac; 02-23-2011 at 10:53 PM.
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This is an excerpt from our emails. I really like it. It has a slightly anti-Levine feel to it. I couldn't agree more. Very thoughtful and well stated... I hope he doesn't mind me posting here.
Bert Ligon: "I am usually amused and sometimes irritated when an educator makes some proclamation that one sound is inherently hipper than another. I remember the first time someone told me that harmonic minor wasn't "hip." I started banging out Stravinky's Rite of Spring chord - all the notes of the harmonic minor scale. Pretty hip 98 years later. I like to think of my harmonic color choices like a painter's pallet or a chef's spice rack. One set of colors or spices are not in and of themselves better than others - they provide choices for combinations. Some work well with others and not in another context. Sometimes neutral colors or spices pave the way for some more dramatic choice later. I will deliberately save a colorful sound choice for a 2nd or 3rd chorus in a passage of a tune just for the boost it may give (for those who are still listening to my 3rd chorus!). If I used a particularly colorful and surprising sound every time in the progression and for every chorus, it is no longer colorful or surprising."
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Yes, the "anti-harmonic-minor" view seems to have stuck to Levine. Of course, he never said it wasn't "hip". He just claimed not to have heard jazz players use it to any significant degree (although he managed to find a couple of examples). Originally Posted by JonnyPac
However, to believe it was truly insignificant, he would have to go through some awkward twists analysing a few Charlie Parker solos, to mention just one name one would assume was a central figure...
What I liked about Levine was his constant emphasis on what jazz players actually do (judging from his extensive listening experience) - rather than on what might be possible, which seems to be the angle of some of those who object to him. "Jazz theory" has to be a detached summation of what is "common practice" in jazz, over many decades (bearing in mind stylistic developments) - even if it seems to fly in the face of common sense. (Eg the apparent preference for altered or diminished scales where harmonic or melodic minor might seem a more straightforward choice.)
The mistake is to confuse description with prescription. It's quite easy to take Levine and turn his theories (like any chord-scale notions) into prescriptive rules: sets of laws that can be taught in jazz schools...
The true objection to Levine is not to say "harmonic minor IS hip", or to point out that you "can" use harmonic minor in various places. (Nor to invoke Stravinsky, who is totally irrelevant.) It's to point out occasions where great jazz players made clear use of harmonic minor in their solos. (Which it seems plenty of people have done.)
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Bert Ligon's most famous book Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony is some 175+ excerpts of classic jazz solos. The selections are further reaching than Levine's emphasis on the post-bop era. I like Levine's work, but what he left out and what he emphasized is often detrimental to students who buy The Jazz Theory Book. Levine claims that his book (in the intro) covers the 99% of the inner workings of jazz. What Bert has to offer is far more than the missing 1%!!! Originally Posted by JonR
Again, his volumes are extensive; read them before you get carried away arguing with me over it. If you wanna talk Levine, there is another thread too. I mentioned a slight anti-Levine feel, that was me, not Bert. Sorry to bring it up.
There is a lot of anti-HM in jazz, and among the members of this forum. I am pro HM and I always have been. I have vary clear examples on it in my book, playing, and transcriptions. ALT is not the permanent replacement for Phrygian Dominant, it is a color choice, etc. As you stated, it appears all over jazz.
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I agree. There's a lot of good stuff in it, and it's well written and presented, but there's a hidden bias. That doesn't spoil the good stuff, but it does mislead. (I've commented at length on his book before.) Originally Posted by JonnyPac
I bought Jazzology as an "antidote". It worked as an opposing view, but is not such an appealing read, IMO. (In fact, I was kind of "immune" to Levine's chord-scale point of view anyway, from experience. While I liked his book, I never exactly applied any of his theories.)
You're convincing me on the Ligon book.
The reason for that choice - in Levine's view - is what's interesting, and convincing: although you need to be aware of his angle as a chord player. Originally Posted by JonnyPac
Harnonic minor (and its modes) contains avoid notes. Naturally many beginners see that and think (despite Levine's qualifications) that means notes you can't play, ever! But it just means notes that don't work as chord extensions.
So the logic is: if the chord player is going to alter the scale to maximise his extensions - #9s, #11s, etc - then the soloist better follow suit!
The other advantage of the altered scale - which I discovered for myself (if it's in Levine I don't remember) - is the way it provides a whole slew of half-step resolutions on to chord tones or extensions on the next chord. Harmonic minor (or mixolydian mode in major keys) doesn't do that.
So my view of the alt scale - as a melodic improviser - is as a set of chromatic transitions, approach notes. As a chord player, of course, it's also a set of additional tensions to beef up the V7 - but the way they work is melodic (voice-leading).
I couldn't really see a way of using the alt scale musically until I realised this.
I also like harmonic minor, of course - and I'll certainly use it if I either want that hint of Spanish/gypsy, or don't mind it.
But mostly I'm thinking melodically (and rhythmically and dynamically, etc!) when I improvise, and that means chord tones and passing notes (diatonic and chromatic). Not scales. The scales are incidental.
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Sounds like we're all on the same page.
Too bad we still have to piece it together the hard way so many times. Sometimes finding what to practice is the difficulty in self-education. It takes reading Jazzology and Bert's books to fill in Levine gaps and then you have to listen listen listen and play play play...
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I just gave a nice 5-star review to Bert's books on Amazon:
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Jazz Theory Resources: Volume 1
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wow... Mr. Pac... things have shook your little world. Glad you're using it to improve yourself and others via your lessons and book... Keep at it. Things is busy here!
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I am glad you enjoy these books as much as I do. I tried to email Bert and never got a response . . . .
That's an awesome article he shared with you though! Did he send you any other lessons?
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Yeah, he sent me a few cool things. I'll PM them to you. He is hit and miss with emails. I'm sure he is a busy guy.
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Brand new. Due to order mix up I have one extra copy of Jazz Theory Resources Volume Two, by Bert Ligon. If you're interested I'll let you have it for what it cost me. PM please. Thanks.
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if levine doesn't like harmonic minor, what does he like for playing B/C ? Typically I would treat that as E harmonic minor or C Dim.
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Exactly! That's a great chord and sound with HM. It's a chord that a lot of players and educators misinterpret, IMO. Good point. Originally Posted by jzucker
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I got "Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony" a few months ago and I have worked through the first few sections on and off. I'm going to be a high school senior in the fall and I plan to study jazz guitar in college. The cool thing is, he teaches at the University of South Carolina at Columbia; that's pretty close to home and quite affordable. I visited the school as soon as I got his book and read that he taught there in the 'about the author' section. Who else thinks it's a great idea to study with him for four years? Also; not many schools have a guitarist as the head of the jazz department.
-Aaron
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I think you could certainly do worse than having Bert Ligon heading up your academic department. You should go for it! I understand he's got a series of theory books as well (which I haven't checked out) - they're pretty highly regarded around here. Originally Posted by MatsonJazz94
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Me. You're very fortunate to be in that location. I really dig his books. Go for it and make sure to keep us informed on your progress and on his teaching style. He seems like a really nice guy too. Originally Posted by MatsonJazz94
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