Lydian Chromatic Concept ?

[Nuff Said]

I thought that the LCC was also a system of playing out, giving the option to use scales that contain more and more of the so called "out notes".

Nuff

[paynow]

I thought that the LCC was also a system of playing out, giving the option to use scales that contain more and more of the so called "out notes".

Nuff

It is that, to a certain extent. The very first edition was written from more of an improvisational standpoint due to the time period it was written in. The last edition, more compositional in nature.

[Doctor V]

In the LCC the seventh and alt. seventh chords are found on the 2nd degree of a Lydian scale. They are also found on scale degrees +V, VII, and +IV of the Lydian scale and its associated scales: Lydian Aug., Lydian Dim. etc.
Whem applying it to a progression such as D-7 - G7 - Cmaj7 , then G7 resides on the 2nd degree of a F Lydian scale - FGABCDE.
This scale is the same as G Mixolydian as you may have noticed. Other scale tone degress (+v, VII etc) will reveal dom chords such as 7b9, 7+5b9, 7+11
found on Lydian.Lyd Aug,Lyd Dim scales.
Conventional chord progressions are found throught out the book and used as examples .
The ability to come up with your own new and elaborate progressions if you understand the concept is unlimited with this system: from very conservative to off the wall !lol. Of course good judgement is always considered.



Greg

It's nice to have loud sustained chord so no one can hear you.

It's pretty simple why the F sharp sounds better in this context: Triton (from B to F) is much more dissonant than Triton+3 octaves (C to F#)

But when playing the lydian as a scale and not as a quartal chord, some tension-and-release is missing, the dominant is now on the 2nd degree, and it's solution isn't as strong as V-I cadance, and doesn't give a strong sense of tonic.

[Doctor V]

In the LCC the seventh and alt. seventh chords are found on the 2nd degree of a Lydian scale. They are also found on scale degrees +V, VII, and +IV of the Lydian scale and its associated scales: Lydian Aug., Lydian Dim. etc.
Whem applying it to a progression such as D-7 - G7 - Cmaj7 , then G7 resides on the 2nd degree of a F Lydian scale - FGABCDE.
This scale is the same as G Mixolydian as you may have noticed. Other scale tone degress (+v, VII etc) will reveal dom chords such as 7b9, 7+5b9, 7+11
found on Lydian.Lyd Aug,Lyd Dim scales.
Conventional chord progressions are found throught out the book and used as examples .
The ability to come up with your own new and elaborate progressions if you understand the concept is unlimited with this system: from very conservative to off the wall !lol. Of course good judgement is always considered.



Greg

It's nice to have loud sustained chord so no one can hear you.

It's pretty simple why the F sharp sounds better in this context: Triton (from B to F) is much more dissonant than Triton+3 octaves (C to F#)

But when playing the lydian as a scale and not as a quartal chord, some tension-and-release is missing, the dominant is now on the 2nd degree, and it's solution isn't as strong as V-I cadance, and doesn't give a strong sense of tonic.

[AmundLauritzen]

To me it looks like just another esoteric overcomplication of theory using fancy terms to make it seem more intriguing and mystical than it really is.

It brings to mind the cats who aggressively market their Schillinger courses, yet they charge $1000 for a membership.
Expensive payment without getting a taste of what you're paying for before you empty your wallet.
Broke as we are, jazz musicians, and guitarists in particular, it is not a good marketing strategy.

I'd buy the LCC book and books on the Schillinger system if they were reasonably priced.
As expensive as they are, I'll never even consider paying for something I don't know is worth the money.

Many people praise these systems though. Myself, I am skeptical.

[Doctor V]

Hi and thanx for your reply.
Have you had a chance to read the book?
I have the 1st edition which i bought many yrs ago.Still has the price of $25 on the inside. Bought back in the early 80's i think. By that time i had gotten out of the full time music biz and into a different occupation but still played part time. Never got too far into the book as my new job and raiseing a family left little time.

Now that i'm semi retired(unemployed)lol iv'e been revisiting my music books. Been reading thru the LCC trying to understand the concept.
This 1st edition is only about 75 pages and has 2 charts and a slide rule(paper) in the back of the book. The new 4th edition has 268 pages so i can only comment on what i have. Definitely not another gimmick or magic system. You should know all about music theory(chord construction,progressions,tensions,sec.dom,ext.dom .improvising etc)going in.
as he does not teach this.
It is not about playing in the Lydian mode(not in this edition).
To quote the introduction:
"The LCC is a chromatic concept providing the musician with an amareness of the full spectrum of tonal colors available in the equal temperament tuning. There are no "rules", no "do's or "don'ts". It is, therefore, not a system but rather a view or philosophy of tonality in which the student it is hoped will find his own identity".

When i get the new edition i will have a better understanding of it.

You also mentioned the Schillinger System. I also have that book that i received as a gift many yrs ago. Vol.1- almost 900 pages of OMG!
I worked thru part of the first chapter on Theory of Rhythm-Interferences of Periodicities using ratios to produce a simple rhythm pattern(yikes)
Introduction says it's written so the average layman can understand(haha)
If your into math and physics you will enjoy but seems to be quite involved and time consuming.

Greg

.

[gtGT]

I have the original manuscript and on page ii (page 64) GR states that "since a major scale formed from the 5th above the root best describes the tonality of the parent major chord (ie g maj played on top of c maj chord is the c lydian scale) that then a g major lydian scale would be even better at desciribing the tonality of a c chord. I think he just got carred away with himself and was up late when writing this paragraph because g lyd would be g a b c# d e F# g and this isn't what I think he was trying to explain. I think he ultimately is trying to find justification for simply playing c lydian over c - or G maj over c. Anyone catch this ?

[cosmic gumbo]

Anyone catch this ?

If we cared, we wouldn't have ditched this thread a year and a half ago. Thanks anyway.

[monk]

If we cared, we wouldn't have ditched this thread a year and a half ago. Thanks anyway.

ROTFLMFAO
CG, I'm really glad you're a member of this forum.

[Doctor V]

Are you refering to the 59 edition.
I have the 59 and GR does not say to use a G Lydian scale over C.
Perhaps you could re-read and quote exactly what is in your book.


thanx

I have the original manuscript and on page ii (page 64) GR states that "since a major scale formed from the 5th above the root best describes the tonality of the parent major chord (ie g maj played on top of c maj chord is the c lydian scale) that then a g major lydian scale would be even better at desciribing the tonality of a c chord. I think he just got carred away with himself and was up late when writing this paragraph because g lyd would be g a b c# d e F# g and this isn't what I think he was trying to explain. I think he ultimately is trying to find justification for simply playing c lydian over c - or G maj over c. Anyone catch this ?

[Double 07]

I love this thread. A music theory concept where a lot of people around here seem to have the book but nobody seems to be able to clearly explain it or understand it. oooookay LOL

Maybe that one should be donated to the public library or something?

[Spirit59]

I love this thread. A music theory concept where a lot of people around here seem to have the book but nobody seems to be able to clearly explain it or understand it. oooookay LOL

Maybe that one should be donated to the public library or something?

It's not just this thread or this forum. I've seen this stuff discussed for many years on many forums and it's always the same: so-and-so, who knows so-and-so who says the LCC changed his life, but the specifics always remain murky.

[ottocat]

I borrowed the book from the library . Read through it. Don't know how much I understood.What I did get out of it was "tonal gravity" or my understanding of it . The gravitational pull of the sound and why it pulls .Which notes pull which way.
I am not remotely close to being smart enough to think of Lydian dom,aug,melodic minor,harmonic minor, diatonic , wholetone ,diminished,not to mention the 72 ragas in Indian Classical music on the fly in an improvisational situation . I'm trying to simplify things .
I am getting closer to achieving The SACCOTO. There are only 12 notes to play how hard can it be . Just jump around with those 12 notes and make it sound really good. That's the best thing I've heard in a long time.
If you hit a really bad one slide it up or down a half step.You'll sound like you know what you're doing. If it fits the rhythmic expectancy you set up,
pitch is almost irrelevant..................depending on who and what you are playing for.

[max chill]

pitch is almost irrelevant..................depending on who and what you are playing for.

The tone deaf?

[larry graves]

Humphrey Lyttleton once said, if it sounds right play it! I've read the fourth edition of this book and have concluded it's making algebra out of stuff we play every day without thinking, i.m.h.o.p of course! .L.G...

[ottocat]

A flat 6 or b2 sounds perfectly normal over a dominate chord to me.
A typical western listener would say that sounds "wrong" because it isn't Van Halen or country or autotune spoon fed jive.