what is meant by "backcycling"?

[cisco kid]

Hi,
What is meant by "backcycling" in chord progressions and maybe in improvising? Does this help in chord substitution? Does the term have to do with the Cycle of 5ths/Cycle of 4ths (I understood it was called cycle of 5ths now its circle of 5ths for some time???)
Thanks for the feedback

[Mel Ott]

I think - and I'm sure someone will be able set me straight if I'm wrong - that backcycling is a method of chord substitution that starts from the chord you want to end up on and works backward from there to create a ii-V-I progression to that chord. So, if you had a chord progression already and you were looking to jazz it up, you could take the chord in the last bar and instead of playing "C" for all four beats, play Dm - G7 - C. If the previous bar were something else, you could also substitute the Dm-G7 for whatever that chord was, because you'd wind up with a nice resolution on the C.

If you really wanted to get fancy you could try backcycling using the G7 or the Dm as the "I," and so on and so on.

At least, I think that's how it works...

[cisco kid]

Thanks Mel, I heard it was in reference to what you just explained, but one can forget if one is not use to the jazz theory or new to it or has not really used it
You ... use it or lose it... as they say. It makes jazz progressions more interesting and less dull when one starts to use these tools I've been told.
Thanks again!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Mel is right. As an example, take a look at the different takes on 12 bar blues here: Jazz Guitar Chords: Jazz Blues Chord Progression

In the most basic version of an F blues, the first four measures are F7, then come two measures of Bb7. In Charlie Parker's crazy version, the first five measures are:

| FMaj7 | Em7b5 A7b9 | Dm7 Db7 | Cm7 F7 | Bb7 |

There's your backcycling right there: E->A->D->G->C->F->Bb. (The Db7 is a b5 sub for G7.)

[cisco kid]

Thanks, BigDaddyLoveHandles, for the clarification example ... it helps!

[derek]

More than just subbing, backcycling is often used to fill a measure or two of a static chord. So in many tunes, you have a couple of measures of ii V I where you are riding the I for a couple of measures. By counting backward along with circle of 5ths, you can fill in this space by using those chords.

So if say the I is Gmaj7, you can use D, A, E, B, (which of course is iii, vi, ii V I in G) etc., to fill in. You can stick with thier diatonic qualities of major, dominant or minor as they fit in the G major scale, or you can make'em all dominant, or mix and match.

Of course, whatever works chordally works for lines also. So if you are bored with the prospect of playing 2 measures of Gmaj, then backcycle your lines also. Hope that helps.

[fep]

More than just subbing, backcycling is often used to fill a measure or two of a static chord. So in many tunes, you have a couple of measures of ii V I where you are riding the I for a couple of measures. By counting backward along with circle of 5ths, you can fill in this space by using those chords.

So if say the I is Gmaj7, you can use D, A, E, B, (which of course is iii, vi, ii V I in G) etc., to fill in. You can stick with thier diatonic qualities of major, dominant or minor as they fit in the G major scale, or you can make'em all dominant, or mix and match.

Of course, whatever works chordally works for lines also. So if you are bored with the prospect of playing 2 measures of Gmaj, then backcycle your lines also. Hope that helps.

Great explanation

[derek]

Great explanation

Thanks. I think I did better talking about this than the symmetrical dominant chord movement thing.

[GodinFan]

I've used backcycling as an arranging device. My sax quartet arrangement of Cottontail uses this on the A section of the ensemble chorus. The changes I used were: F#7 B7 |E7 A7 |D7 G7 |C7 F7 |

This sequence arrived in the fifth bar on Bb7#9. The line itself outlined the changes, since it was based on a 351b7 digital pattern.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Here's a sequence of ii-V's that goes through all 12 possible ii-V's.

||: Bm7 E7 | Am7 D7 | Gm7 C7 | FMaj7 |
| Dm7 Gm7 | Cm7 F7 | Bbm7 Ebm7 | AbMaj7 |
| Fm7 Bb7 | Ebm7 Ab7 | C#m7 F#7 | BMaj7 |
| G#m7 C#7 | F#m7 B7 | Em7 A7 | DMaj7 :||

It's from some exercise book; you might find it helpful to ingrain backcycling.

[Goofsus4]

Practice BDLH's exercise until you puke. Then open a real book and start comping every song you come to and it will blow your mind how frequently that concept is used. Once you get the ii V I and V I sound in your ears it makes most jazz standards really easy to relate to. It just seems so obvious what's coming next sometimes. When I first started studying jazz, I honestly didn't really understand the talk about the fundamental building block of jazz being the ii V I. I would look at a lead sheet and see all these complex changes and I was thinking "yeah right, I see THAT ii V I but what's all this other stuff???" Then when I got hipped to the backcycling, or what I like to call "nested ii V loops" it was a real "ah ha" moment. It was like deciphering the jazz code. The building blocks are indeed the ii V I but they are hidden by the key changes.

[cisco kid]

Thanks,
Your explanation/examples, I have to say, are easier to understand than some music theory books....down-to-earth explanation.

[ll00l0l]

"nested ii-V loops" - I like that.

[Melodic Dreamer]

That's what I'm working on right now. I understand the concept, but really getting it in my ears, that's the ticket right there.

[Stuart Elliott]

Back-cycling doesn't have to take the form of ii-V-I. Sometimes, a string of dominant 7s are back-cycled.

[wolflen]

as you become more familiar with jazz progressions..you will begin to see this device used a lot..and not just at the end of a progression but all through one..it is a great way to modulate to other keys and create never ending chord cycles..check out some of John Coltrane's work..(perhaps when your a bit more used to using subs)

[ronjazz]

Also, don't ignore the tritone subs. For instance, in All The Things, Fm7///Bbm7///Eb7///Ab can be stated as Fm7/// Bbm7/// Em7/-A7/, Ab. Those subs happen to fit the melody perfectly, which is always a good place to start.

[grahambop]

Isn't the bridge of I Got Rhythm this? i.e. a string of V7s which ultimately lead back to the home key.

I could never play this, then I started practising the same sequence but never ending - cool because it goes through all 12 keys if you just keep going. After that I could solo on that bridge much more easily.

[ColMc]

Back-cycling doesn't have to take the form of ii-V-I. Sometimes, a string of dominant 7s are back-cycled.

Are extensions and alterations of the Dom7 chords allowed?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Are extensions and alterations of the Dom7 chords allowed?

For sure. Trust your ears,

[m78w]

Just posted a lesson on the blog that might help with this.


How to Practice and Apply Back Cycling - The Jazz Guitar Blog

[edh]

The way I understood backcycling to mean is moving up the neck(towards the tailpiece) in the cycle of of fifths. What you describe above is moving in the cycle of fourths.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

To me, the "cycle of fifths" and the "cycle of fourths" denote the same thing:

E7 A7 D7 G7 Cmaj

Or any variation on that.

[matt.guitarteacher]

The way I understood backcycling to mean is moving up the neck(towards the tailpiece) in the cycle of of fifths. What you describe above is moving in the cycle of fourths.

Yeah. A little confusion I think . Look at the examples above. They are talking about moving down in 5ths (or up in 4ths... same thing in terms of chord names) . That's usually going to mean moving down the neck , toward the headstock.

Some folks say "cycle" and some say "circle" , but mean the same thing.

Where the confusion about the direction comes in is the way it's usually taught and discussed. "Back cycling to C" is moving down in fifths toward C.

F#7, B7, E7, A7, D7, G7, C

But... the way people usually TALK about figuring out what chords to play leading up to C is to start at C and go backwards, up a fifth (or down a fourth) filling in the chords that will lead you back to C . But that's just the "figuring out" part. When you PLAY it, you're going the other way.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Lots of jazz tunes has the cycling baked into them. My favourite is Brubeck's In Your Own Sweet Way: