How does learning guitar triads improve my playing?

[bart1986]

How will learning triads improve my guitar playing? Mister Levine tells me to learn all triads and its inversion but basically playing a harmonized major/minor scale is the very same thing if i just play the 1 3 5 of the chord...

So how does learning triads add something to my knowledge, or is this more like something you learn before you go into chords, and thus something i already know?

[JohnW400]

Think of it as learning vowels an vowel combinations. Without them you couldn't form words

[bart1986]

Think of it as learning vowels an vowel combinations. Without them you couldn't form words

I understand what they are, i dont understand how they will help me. I got a lot of chords under my belt already. And i can come up with most of the chords using the caged system. So where do they triads come in handy? Will it allow me to come up with even more voicings?

[jeffstocksmusic]

Triads are amazingly powerful because of their internal strength in relaying a sound. They are more specific sound than a normal 7-note scale, for example.

You can use them in comping, chord substitutions, improvisation, etc. They are quite literally the basis of traditional classical music. Look at any Bach chorale music, for example, and see how simple triads can be turned into amazing music.

Just a few examples in the jazz world...

Listen to George Van Eps to hear how triads can be manipulated by putting them over different bass notes or moving lines within them. You can get some amazing harmony this way.

Listen to George Garzone to hear how triads can be applied to improv to create WAY outside sounds. Check out his Triadic Chromatic method.

Look at the books of Walt Weiskopf and Gary Campbell to see how to use pairs of triads for sources of improvisational material.

Look at the book of Jerry Bergonzi on Hexatonics to see how triad pairs can be turned into 6 note scales with very unique and open sounds.

etc, etc, etc, etc.

Ignore them at your peril.

[bart1986]

Triads are amazingly powerful because of their internal strength in relaying a sound. They are more specific sound than a normal 7-note scale, for example.

You can use them in comping, chord substitutions, improvisation, etc. They are quite literally the basis of traditional classical music. Look at any Bach chorale music, for example, and see how simple triads can be turned into amazing music.

Just a few examples in the jazz world...

Listen to George Van Eps to hear how triads can be manipulated by putting them over different bass notes or moving lines within them. You can get some amazing harmony this way.

Listen to George Garzone to hear how triads can be applied to improv to create WAY outside sounds. Check out his Triadic Chromatic method.

Look at the books of Walt Weiskopf and Gary Campbell to see how to use pairs of triads for sources of improvisational material.

Look at the book of Jerry Bergonzi on Hexatonics to see how triad pairs can be turned into 6 note scales with very unique and open sounds.

etc, etc, etc, etc.

Ignore them at your peril.

Thanks for the info i will check out the books you recommended.

[Ron Stern]

Speaking as a self taught beginner who hasn't gone very far --

I've found that finding triads up and down the neck was the next thing after learning scales up and down the neck. That's how I'm learning to navigate. When I'm in a particular area, playing a particular pattern, and I want to learn it more deeply, if you know what I mean, I stop and try to figure out "What triads are implicated by this pattern?" It doesn't always yield a useful answer but often it does. Triads can serve like the dots on the fretboard, markers to help remind you where are you are, except they are imaginary. They provide context. No doubt at some point I'll need to liberate myself from this idea, in about ten years at the current rate.

[timscarey]

How will learning triads improve my guitar playing?

So how does learning triads add something to my knowledge, or is this more like something you learn before you go into chords, and thus something i already know?

Triads are it man. It's all about learning triad inversions and spellings. Spellings in particular. As for improving your guitar playing? well, don't know about that but it will improve your musicianship, that's for sure.

[shoome]

One Word: Superimposing

They are basics on one side and can be used for so many complex attempts on the other side...

Like Michael Brecker once said, when he was asked in an interview about what he practices all day long: "Triads!"

[rabbit]

I recently indulged myself with the purchase of Robben Ford's
'Art of Blues Rhythm.'

In an early segment he plays triads (G, C & F) all over the neck
like nobody's business. This segment is not, unfortunately,
available on youtube. A good $30 purchase for non-expert
players (like me.)

Try doing all the G, C & F triads up and down the neck on the
1-2-3 & 2-3-4 string groups at speed. I can't, yet.
I failed to mention that he does this very musically.

Knowing your triads (min., maj., dim.) allows you to make
rootless 7th chords, i.e. F + Amin. = Fmaj7, and so on for minor,
dominant & half-dim.

All the best.

[jeffstocksmusic]

Like Michael Brecker once said, when he was asked in an interview about what he practices all day long: "Triads!"

Ted Greene said the same thing.

[SteveCarter]

Reminds me of a comment one of my colleagues at Berklee made many years ago.
We were in a Guitar Department meeting. At the time, students were required to play I-IV-V triad cadences across the fingerboard in proficiency tests. Many students were reluctant to work on this. Mike Grady, a fellow teacher, and one of the finest guitarist I've ever met, expressed his exasperation. "I don't understand why students don't want to learn triads. I tell them, if you want to play chord melody, you can play the melody note with a triad under it. If you want to comp, play triads that are part of the chord. You want to play 'outside', play triad over a bass note. They just don't get it."

Sadly, Mike gave up playing music, but he's very happy flying jumbo jets for a living. I miss his playing. But I've been exploring what he suggested about triads for almost 40 years now and have just scratched the surface.

Check out some of the triad exercises on my lessons page:
http://frogstoryrecords.com/

Also, analyze many of the comping exercises and melodic exercises I've written and you'll find a wealth of triads.

Steve

[nomelite]

Steve Khan's Chord Khancepts book is based mainly on triads and guide tones, and this book has some advanced music.

[jeffstocksmusic]

I am going to put in a plug for Steve Carter's site. I am 100% confident in saying whatever level you are, you will find something useful there. Thank you for the great site Steve and thank you for the insightful post.

[cutnstuf]

Simply put, triads are the foundation of all other chords built in the tertiary system of chord structure. There are other approaches such as quartel structures, in other words chords built on 4ths. There's enough here to keep you busy for a long, long time. Just my humble opinion.

Cut

[Baltar Hornbeek]

If you get your triads together....who knows, you just might compose another smokin melody, like Take The "A" Train or somethin. We can always use another melody.

[JohnRoss]

How will learning triads improve my guitar playing?

Guitar playing aside, you are lacking something as a musician if you don't have triads under your belt, all inversions, closed and open, they're that basic.

So how does learning triads add something to my knowledge

I think you're confusing 'knowledge' as in 'something I more or less understand' with 'knowledge' as in 'what I can do, am able to use fluently, and use as a basis for expanding my musicality.' Triads are fundamental building blocks: for example, sevenths are made by taking your root chord and superimposing a triad starting from the third, ninths from the fifth and so on. It's basic vocabulary, like being able to order a café au lait in Paris. Basic is not the same as easy, and it isn't enough to understand it in the abstract, you have to internalize it so that your pronunciation or articulation or whatever doesn't f*** everything up when the moment of truth comes and you have to play a 13b9 without thinking or you really, really need a coffee.

I'm not claiming superiority in jazz (or French), here, by the way. This is stuff I'm aware of because I've learned it wrong myself.

or is this more like something you learn before you go into chords

No, triads aren't something you learn before chords, though you can do it the other way round, take your chord knowledge and apply that to triads.

and thus something i already know?

What I said.

[Ausjazz]

I agree with what's been said and would add they are great for doing chord solo stuff. If you are improvsing using chords it's easier to use the traids and elaborate on them with some lines rather than having the chord dictate the line to come.

[Reg]

You don't have to learn anything... but if you would like to understand or hear what your, or someone else is playing, there one of the many parts. Eventually you'll get to the point where you hear the complete vertical collection of notes for every horizontal note. That doesn't mean you need to play them, but there implied even if your not aware. There are different choices sometimes or by choice, a different harmonic motion is specified or implied, but triads are required before you move on... there not rocket science, most players get them under their belt in a few sittings. Best Reg

[Roberoo]

I think triads are a great place to start when learning to improvise and for chord soloing. Regarding the former, the basic triads or arpeggios built to the seventh (for example) give you the "sweet notes" right away and immediately lend your playing a more melodic sound. Secondly, using triads to solo tends to generate greater melodic leaps and avoids the scalar up and down the fretboard sound that gets rather boring after...er 10 seconds or so... Finally, using triads to solo over a piece really helps the player lock the sound of the chord into the brain. This whole approach is VERY helpful when playing without a harmony instrument as it gives the listerner something to grab on. It is also halpful in such situations if you are playing with a weak bass player that does not have a strong grip on harmony.

In regard to chord soloing...it is amazing what you can do droping triads under the melody notes. You can do a lot with very little.

[drobniuch]

Steve Khan's Chord Khancepts book is based mainly on triads and guide tones, and this book has some advanced music.

I'll disagree, only 1/3 if not less of it is based on triads -only the begining, (but cool to use in POP)

[SteveCarter]

My article on using triads in comping is now available (free) at:
JGL Columnist: Steve Carter : Jazz Guitar Life

(The links to the MP3 files for the examples are broken right now, but I've asked the webmaster to fix them so check back in a few days.)

Steve

[KB_Blues]

Hi

Sorry to hijack this thread but the posts got me thinking.

Are triads called triads because they have three notes or because they are built on thirds?

Also, are three note chords that use the 3rd, 7th and an extension still called triads?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Are triads called triads because they have three notes or because they are built on thirds?

Also, are three note chords that use the 3rd, 7th and an extension still called triads?

"Triad" is for the three notes. Building chords in thirds is just assumed, part of the furniture, until quartal harmony etc... came along.

And "triad" is revered for chords made up of root, third and fifth (perhaps inverted). A three note 13th chord (say F-B-E) is not called a triad.

[KB_Blues]

Thankyou. i always thought that was the case.

I was going to ask what chords that drop the root and 5th are called but presumably they are Drop 2 Chords?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I was going to ask what chords that drop the root and 5th are called but presumably they are Drop 2 Chords?

No, Drop 2 refers to a voicing you get by dropping the second highest note an octave, starting with a close voicing. For example, here is how to generate the drop 2 voicing for CMaj7:

G B C E -> C G B E (ex: x3545x)
B C E G -> E B C G (xx2415)
C E G B -> G C E B (xx5557)
E G B C -> B E G C (xx9988)

Chords you get by dropping the root and/or fifth are called "shell" voicings, I think.