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I found I just had to memorize it mentally to be able to not get hung up on playing the different sections. Then I'd combine that with my fingerings that I'd worked out.
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05-14-2024 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mick-7
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Originally Posted by Mick-7
I for one have been very interested in your verbal comments but puzzled that you have not demonstrated by playing some examples. Most of us here are hesitant to take advice from someone who talks a lot but does not post examples of their playing showing how their ideas actually work.
As you said, "If you can't play it, you don't really know it" so I'm just wanting to learn more by hearing you play it.
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Here’s a guide tone line thing. I practice with this a lot. Stole (and subsequently bastardized) it from the Connecting Chords w Linear Harmony outlines.
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
"Ignore" was the wrong word, make that "take note" of mistakes, and correct them the next time through, but one plays it slowly enough at first so that there are few if any errors. The point is to be able to play through the entire piece without getting hung up at any particular point, just as you would if you were sight reading it. The two disciplines - reading and playing - are closely related, you can't sight read something if you can't play it.
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Originally Posted by Mick-7
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
I actually learned Charlie Parker's solo from the Omnibook a few years ago
and was struck at his use of arpeggios and that the solo "laid" better on the guitar than the head does. I kept thinking every phrase of the solo was a wonderful bebop idea to be harvested and used.
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Originally Posted by Mick-7
Practice with your goal in mind. If Allan’s goal is to be able to get through a bebop head in minimal attempts, then sight reading a bunch of them at slower tempos might be part of the practice. If his goal is to play this tune well, then it seems weird to write off chunking out the tune and really learning it in pieces.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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For whatever it’s worth, I had a lesson with Peter Bernstein where he was like …. Your swing on this one measure of this one part of this one tune is lame. Work on it in isolation and transcribe some Blakey horn lines to internalize the vibe etc etc etc.
It felt a whole lot like Ana Vidovic absolutely demolishing me because my tone was lackluster and my time a little squirrelly in that one part of that one section of the Scarlatti Sonata I played for her in a masterclass.
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My original reply on this topic was to AllanAllen's comment: "I'm struggling to put all the pieces together and keep tempo. It's like playing 4 different songs back to back right now."
My point was: If I had that problem (or even if I didn't), I'd play through the entire tune a few times to get a sense of it's tonal and harmonic range, where and how I'd like to play it on the fret-board, which parts are most difficult for me, etc.
If you haven't done that, and you only learn it in sections, as has been suggested, you're liable to encounter the problem that Allan mentioned: having to figure out later how to best connect the sections. It's kind of like trying to build a house one room at a time with the goal of joining them all later into a single structure.
Christian said: "It’s so important to acknowledge the absolute diametrical opposition between learning music and sightreading."
In what way are they "diametrically opposed"?
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Originally Posted by Mick-7
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.....
Somebody wake me up when this gets back to folks posting their playing of Donna Lee.
Sorry, feeling grumpy today. ( I am legally obligated to apologize because I'm Canadian - sorry- )
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
I think any good sight reader will tell you that part of sight reading is the skill of sight reading. Being able to read ahead and to leave mistakes behind. But also a huge part of it is experience. They’ve read the piece before, they’ve read something similar before, they recognize that phrase or that shape or whatever.
So the question is, how did they get good at that second half? They got good at it by getting lots of (in this case bebop) music under their fingers so that they see a passage and intuitively understand the best way to finger it, the handful of practical ways to finger it, and the many impractical ways, and then choose accordingly. Which is to say they got good at sight reading, in part by practicing the sort of music they intended to sight read.
So if you haven’t sat with the music (generally — the style, the period, the composers, the vocabulary) and learned it for real, then I’m not sure why anyone would assume they’d come to anything resembling a practical fingering for a piece of that music at even a mind numbingly slow tempo.
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Originally Posted by alpop
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Originally Posted by Mick-7
problem: I’m having trouble playing the whole tune.
solution: ah, see that’s why you should play the whole tune.
Eh?
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Originally Posted by alpop
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This is a clip of the whole tune, slow, at 170 or so. I have tried an experiment, to play the song exclusively on my 25.5" scale guitar, and then switch to the 24.75" scale after a week and see if it's easier to play.
Not really, or maybe sort of.
This clip also illustrates my most pervasive technique flaws. My finger joints have more than the usual amount of "back flex" in them. This makes it easy to bar 2 strings when I need to, but sometimes the joint pops down on an adjacent string and creates a discordant ghost-note. In trying to avoid that, I often then use to little pressure and get a buzz.
Also, I'm playing my Epiphone Zephyr Regent with the Seymour Duncan PhatCat pickup; that's a P90 in a humbucker case. I've also switched from the Fender TMTR going direct to the Fender Princeton Reverb, mic'd with a Shure SM57. Variety, you know?
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
I have another experiment that you may want to try. I've noticed that you are intently staring at the fingerboard while you play. Would you be able to do a whole take without looking?
I wonder if it might be beneficial to use your mind to guide your fingers, rather than your eyes.
Please note that I am not a teacher or an accomplished jazzer, so feel free to ignore my observation and suggestion.
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Originally Posted by alpop
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