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Uh oh, he got you rag. Lol!
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02-13-2024 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
I appreciate people trying to help, but can we start at the start? As the thread goes on I’m more and more
confused.
My advice is 'narrow', not because I don't know stuff, but because the questions asked are generally narrow. Anything broader would almost certainly be passed over. The responses are tailored to the questions. It's that simple.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
God, this is so tedious.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Going to have to echo rag that this is a goofy af, excessive thread. However, that usually happens and:
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
AA gave us his explanation, that he wants to work out the tunes ear grass roots. Nothing wrong with that:
I picked the Burrell one because it's a monk tune, but played straight and cool. The subtext here is, it's a version I think I can pull off, with the pedigree of "I learned it from a Kenny Burrell record" if anyone asks why I'm playing it like that.
Just merely a coincidence it matches the Miles Davis changes, which is a bonus for me since the one I like matches the RB which means I don't need to write anything for my trumpet player. If he's unfamiliar with the song, he can just read it. Then, like I said, we can get through it on a gig.
Originally Posted by ragman1
Sure, going deep dive to understand what different chord qualities are being used is good. However, Monk and everyone else will play different things each time, and besides you're going to have to wing it anyway to play over the weird changes.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Fancy that, right rag?
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Ah yes. The arbiters of whether or not a discussion is interesting or productive are here to have a conversation about each other, and with themselves.
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That sheet is all 7ths though. Monk melody under Miles chord flavors with the right bridge triads but wrong extensions.... Now I see why Reg said this is the worst option.
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PS. The tune's different to the one I posted. If AA is going to swap to the Db7 bridge he'll have to learn a different melody. Maybe the trumpet player too.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
In any case these chord qualities are incorrect to what the man himself played. That’s a D on the Eb chord. The root movement is ok.
EDIT: the A section is a separate discussion…
Probably be ok for a jam. If you want to play Monk’s music with a working outfit, I think the “cork sniffing” is what other people might term “love and respect for the music.”
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Bollocks.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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How about if you reharm it a little, stick in a groovy rhythm, and create your own version? Is that disrespecting the music?
Answer it.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Besides, it doesn’t sound like you like Monk very much, and that’s fine.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
It's nice to know the tune first though.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Anyway that’s all a bit disingenuous because what you’ve done is posted a chart from the Sher New Real Book. All I can say objectively is that it does not represent Monks original composition. I can also say that there are some very good musicians who really care about this stuff, and that is also objectively true.
(A high level of curiosity about and attention to detail regarding music is something many high level musicians value very highly. Clearly not Miles though lol.)
In terms of my own taste, I really like Monks music. If you did an arrangement of it that was different, I might like it too. But that’s different from posting a shit chart and saying it represents the final word on the subject haha
Classic Motte-and-Bailey. Have you ever considered a career in political punditry?
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Probably be ok for a jam. The root movement is ok.
If you want to play Monk’s music with a working outfit, I think the “cork sniffing” is what other people might term “love and respect for the music.”
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
So I've never voted, except once in ignorance, something local when I was very young. That was enough for me, it was like treading in something dirty. But that's another subject.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
I see great musicians play for little or no money all the time. They do it because it’s the music they love. (They have pop gigs, shows etc.)
Do you create 100% accurate charts based on your listening for your bands every time? Yes, that's nice, it's fun and feels good to play the music accurately, you learn more about the music, it demonstrates the love for the music, but I doubt that's your convention. Noone does that every time. If you want to do that, great.
For standards I think it’s unlikely you will play the songbook changes as originally composed although that is knowledge which many musicians see as being valuable. In any case for a project I would certainly source or produce a chart that reflected my preferred basic changes based on my listening. Improvisation could be looser.
If it’s worth playing with a band, it’s worth doing some work on.
When I learn a tune, I try to get the general sense of the most common variations of changes etc. that’s easy these days with streaming and Google for charts etc.
I don’t regard Monk as being standards rep in that way. Unless I have some reinterpretation in mind, I would go to the source as carefully as possible. I think his music deserves it. It’s not tin pan alley jazz fodder but something much more specific. (Not that they aren’t great songs)
The point is - it comes down to listening. Every time I forget that I get rudely reminded of that fact haha.
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