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How do you learn a song from a real book when there are just the chord symbols?
Is it just left up to the player to decide what chord's to use and were to play them on the guitar?
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05-18-2010 03:26 PM
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that's jazz, my friend. If you play the same voicing every time the chord comes up in a tune, you're doing something wrong! If you want to learn something exactly the way it's played on a recording, you gotta transcribe.
realbooks offer a template, it's your job to listen, sub, and improvise as you go.
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The Real Book songs as well as other "lead sheet" music, are truly only guidelines for improvisation. The chords can be substituted, altered or extended as your ear will suggest each time you play the song. The Real books, especially the older editions, have errors in them and should not be thought of a sacrosanct sheet music.
wiz
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thx for your reply's
how long does it take most of you to put together a song that's not to complex just chord changes I'm sure a chord melody is more time consuming ?
also do you make sure that no chord voiceing is repeated more than a ceartin number of times?
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practice makes perfect--once you get familiar with the common jazz chords that pop up in a lot of songs, you will be literally able to recieve a chart, count the tune off, and play.
chord melody of course takes longer, as many folks like to at least partially arrange the head of the tune.
my "never play the chord the same way twice" line was a bit facetious, but if your job is the rhythmic and harmonic backbone of the group, you need to be interesting. varying the rhythm you play in, and yes, the voicings you choose for each chord, is a big part of that.
A good exercise is to be able to play the chords of the song, within a few fret span (meaning the voicings stay close by each other, no jumping around), in three different "areas" of the neck.
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Originally Posted by musicfret
Regarding how long it takes to get the chords sorted, some players can do it on the first run through, and some need much more time. The more time you have, the better you can make it sound. It's not a race
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Your goal is to be able to read through tunes and play them well the first time, like at gigs. More important than your voicing is to have good lead lines that work with the melody. The harmonic implications should become automatic, to the point where you don't have to think about chords, just where there going and your lead line, or what ever technique your using to comp. This obviously takes time, but if you don't start playing this way... you never will. If you spend time memorizing tunes, that's what you'll become good at, so at least split your between memorizing and being able to play( improvise ) comping. I also play chord melodies this way, I usually don't memorize tunes like traditional or classical guitar, I improvise my chord melody as I read the tunes. Again it's difficult to play this way unless you practice that style of playing. But you will with practice. Best Reg
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i understand a-lot of the things you all have been describing its took
me a while though (lol)
the one thing i have trouble finding is an exact transcription of recorded songs to go by, i guess sense they keep changing the song (improvising) or probably because im new to this type of music and don't know were to find it.
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Hi,
forget about transcriptions in the beginning, you won't learn much because you are only copying. In jazz, the journey is the reward. Have fun, checking all the things out by yourself, or even better with the help of a good teacher.
How to learn a realbook standard:
- get as much recorded versions as possible and listen to them (really listen, not just as background music)
- learn the melody by heart
- learn the chord names by heart
- now search for (easy) chord voicings around the melody and play the song with the melody always being the highest note (in most cases you have to transpose the melody by one octave) of those voicings. It doesn't have to be sophisticated like a chord-melody you would like to perform in front of an audience. Memorise the voicings you use, knowing the location of the individual notes of the voicings will help when improvising, too.
- next play all chords on the D and G string only by just using the 7th and 3rd of each chord
- play the chords by only using triads all over the neck. The chords should be as close as possible on the fretboard and should contain as much equal notes as possible (small moves sound more jazzy)
- this is advanced: play all chords on the 4 high strings (D - e) or the 4 middle strings using the interval of 4th only (sounds modern). Try to play different voicings on every beat. Doing this you can walk up and down the neck by just moving up or down one scale degree on every string, example for Cmaj7 (when using the major scale (a), when using the lydian scale (b)):
a)
-8---7-
-8---6-
-7---5-
-7---5-
-------
-------
b)
-8---7-
-8---7-
-7---5-
-7---5-
-------
-------
- record the chords of the song on your computer or on a tape recorder and play the melody over it. Interpret the meldoy, add tones, remove tones, delay notes, anticipate notes, experiment with phrasing, tone and sound
- learn the scales you need to improvise over the song. One hint here: look at the melody. As long as there are no accidentials, chance is high, that the key doesn't change. Learn all scales in one and the same position first.
- improvise over those recordings
- transcribe two licks of your favorite recordings of the song and work them into your improvisations by varying parts of it (phrasing, articulation, etc)
- play the song with other musicians (very important!). Look out for jazz sessions, where beginners are welcome
- get a good book on harmony-theory
As you can see, there's a lot to learn, but after a small number of songs you will learn tunes faster and faster. Many players get frustrated by the amount of material there is to learn. But you can also make good music by using relatively small vocabulary. That's where a good teacher is most helpful. He/she reduces the volume of information in portions you can digest. There is so much information available now, so many books, dvds, websites, that most beginners become overwhelmed and rush through all the material to fast, because they think, they have to learn everything in a couple of weeks. A good teacher also ensures that you can put everything you learn into music immediately. There's nothing more frustrating than working hard on material for month and not knowing how to apply it to real music (=songs).
One book recommendation: The music lesson by Victor Wooten
Have fun!
Cheers, Chris
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Originally Posted by musicfret
Big books of sheet music are the best basic reference. You know the kind called The Giant Book of Jazz and 50 Late Night Classics and things like that? You don't need stuff that's designed for guitar, the best kind are the ones arranged for voice and easy piano. They're cheap (or even free) second-hand.
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Originally Posted by Modalguru
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i think modalguru was referring to the OP's quest for full transcriptions that are done for him already.
They are, for the most part, not out there. There's a book called the jazz guitar bible that has some full transcriptions, with that TAB stuff too.
It's an amazingly useless book. No direction as to what recordings the transcriptions are from, just guitar lines and some questionable chord symbols. Absolute crap for a beginner.
You don't learn jazz by playing someone else's transcription note for note--you've gotta develop your ears
The value of transcription is doing it yourself, so you can analyze how it works against what everyone else is playing. It's NEVER to early to start listening to melodies of tunes and figuring them out on the guitar.
OP: learn the notes on the fretboard. Learn major scale harmony. Learn how to build chords like maj7's, m7's, dominant7's and half diminished. Listen to tons of jazz, devour all of it. Open that real book, learn some tunes. There's no one right way to play that melody, there's no one right way to play those chords. That's the beauty of it.
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Originally Posted by FatJeff
transcribing one or the other cool lick of a solo is a good thing. Trying to mimic the phrasing and articulation is a good thing, too, so is transcribing the chords and the theme of a song. Transcribing whole solos is a waste of time imho.
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Originally Posted by Modalguru
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Originally Posted by Modalguru
I think the full act of transcribing and learning to play someone's solo note for note can eventually become a waste of time, but for beginners to see how a master constructed it, it's pretty valuable.
I'm not in the habit of writing out much of what I transcribe anymore, and I'd never play someone else's solo note for note, but i'd be lying if I told you I'd never done it way back when...
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
But what I've soon found out after starting out with jazz is, that anyone who can play well has his/her own approach anyway...
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If you can't write out or hear what a tune is doing when you listen then find the area(s) you have problems with and work on it. Don't use programs to slow down the tune and don't write or play it out note per note. Try to write out or play at least by the bar or phrase. Your either trying to get your ears together or not. Don't waste time on transcribing tune you can hear already.
I already gave some advice on Real Book playing earlier in thread.Best Reg
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Real books are for pros who need to get through a song with no or limited rehearsal. They're just not a good resource for developing players.
The repeated suggestions that developing players should drop all other approaches and start transcribing solos are not helpful.
There is nothing wrong with learning melodies and other arrangements note-for-note. This is how students work with every other instrument.
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Originally Posted by fivebells
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Originally Posted by fivebells
all you gotta have is a little knowledge beforehand, and a fake book is a valuable tool. Even a beginner can learn the melody from one, then compare it to a few recorded versions, and settle on "their way" of playing it.
Full transcriptions are pretty rare for jazz, unless you sit and do them yourself. You're not gonna pick up guitar player magazine and get a bunch every month. So you make do with what is available--real books, recordings, and your ears.
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Originally Posted by musicfret
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Originally Posted by Modalguru
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Could someone please tell me if the Real Books have melody lines as well as chords?
Thanks
Doug
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Real Books do, iReal (the app) does not.
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They do. Not necessarily the same text book melodies as they're penned by the original authors though and certainly not including original verses as a complete broadway published version would have but the short answer is yes.
Melody and chords in chord symbol shorthand. They are intended to be working templates for improvisation and not detailed arranged pieces to be played note for note.
A guideline to be taken off book ASAP.
David
Wright SoloEtte Travel Guitar
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