November 2023 - Mack the Knife

[Bop Head]

The version referenced in this post is most definitely not the Blitzstein version, which was sanitized for American audiences, and is the version Louis A. and Bobby D. used.

The 1976 Broadway version used a translation by Mannheim and Willett, which they did not want produced. Richard Foreman, who directed the production, was living with Kate Mannheim at the time, and so was able to get permission to use the libretto.

I did not know that, I always only saw Blitzstein mentioned as translator. Thanks for pointing me to Manheim (single n BTW, other than the German city his name probably comes from), seems he translated my uncle Michael Ende's Neverending Story (never got to know him personally unfortunately) later as well, but his translator career started with Mein Kampf according to Wiki. If Hitler knew that his "work" was translated into English by a Jew?

My father's mother who died in the early 80ies was according to family anecdotes in the same circle of friends as Bert Brecht in Augsburg in her youth before WWI. According to those anecdotes she was very pretty and Brecht was in love with her then. Her brother who died in an accident at a young age married a woman who later became Michael Ende's mother-in-law. This grand-aunt of mine has a tree in the GardenOf The Righteous Among The Nations in Yad Vashem for hiding not one but two Jewish friends in her Munich flat ...

[sgcim]

In all my years of playing Mack the Knife I've found there are two types of keyboard players. In the key of C there are the ones who play on the 9th bar:
1) Am7 for two measures, and then go to Dm7.
2) Em7 one measure followed by Ebdim7 one bar, and then go to Dm7.

Once you know those two options, you should be able to play it in any key with any keyboard player, bass player or other chordal instrument, or even horn player.
Jimmy Giuffre used #1 with Jim Hall in the JG trio, so I thought that was the right way to play it. I was wrong, there is the other way, too.

[ragman1]

Absolutely. This one (in Bb) has got both!

[sgcim]

Absolutely. This one (in Bb) has got both!

I'm talking about only the 9th bar, not the turnaround.

[ragman1]

So was I. You said two versions of bar 9.

1) Am7 for two measures, and then go to Dm7.
2) Em7 one measure followed by Ebdim7 one bar, and then go to Dm7.

There they are in Bb.

1) Gm7 for two measures, and then to Cm7.
2) Dm7 one measure followed by Dbdim7 one bar, and then go to Cm7.

It's the same. The chords in () are not over the turnaround, they're alternate chords for bars 9 and 10.

I prefer the alternate chords, incidentally, breaks it up.

[AllanAllen]

That’s not where alternate chords are supposed to go.

I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m saying the sheet is poorly written.

[ragman1]

The whole book's like that, it's the way they do alternate chords. In any case, that variation is well-known. You can hear it in the Robbie Williams version at 0.30 and the Bobby Darin one at 0.24.

Actually sgcim already knew that variation, he brought it up. With all due respect to him, with his knowledge of it, it's quite obvious that's where those chords go. In any case, if they referred to the turnaround they wouldn't go outside the repeat line, they would go inside.

Talking about that book always writing their alternate chords in parentheses underneath, here's a good example just for fun. There are one or two of them here!

And, if I may ask, if you were writing it, where would you have put them?

[Bop Head]

The whole book's like that, it's the way they do alternate chords. In any case, that variation is well-known. You can hear it in the Robbie Williams version at 0.30 and the Bobby Darin one at 0.24.

Actually sgcim already knew that variation, he brought it up. With all due respect to him, with his knowledge of it, it's quite obvious that's where those chords go. In any case, if they referred to the turnaround they wouldn't go outside the repeat line, they would go inside.

Talking about that book always writing their alternate chords in parentheses underneath, here's a good example just for fun. There are one or two of them here!

And, if I may ask, if you were writing it, where would you have put them?

Usually chords in jazz are written above the staff, left-aligned with the note-head they belong to; alternate chords are written in a second line above or below the main changes, optically distinct by brackets like here or in italics in print.

This fake book is handwritten on printed music paper with a fixed distance between staves which is probably why the one who wrote the music decided to write the alternate chords below the respective staff.

[Christian Miller]

In all my years of playing Mack the Knife I've found there are two types of keyboard players. In the key of C there are the ones who play on the 9th bar:
1) Am7 for two measures, and then go to Dm7.
2) Em7 one measure followed by Ebdim7 one bar, and then go to Dm7.

Once you know those two options, you should be able to play it in any key with any keyboard player, bass player or other chordal instrument, or even horn player.
Jimmy Giuffre used #1 with Jim Hall in the JG trio, so I thought that was the right way to play it. I was wrong, there is the other way, too.

I was played it the second way I didn’t realise you could play it the first way haha!

now let us discuss here’s that Rainy day….

[ragman1]

Alternatively alternatively...

[docsteve]

Here is Sting, singing Manheim‘s lyrics. The interlude is „Die Ballade von der Unzulänglichkeit menschlichen Strebens“, also from the Threepenny Opera.

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[ragman1]

Hey, let's have some fun!

[Christian Miller]

It’s almost like there’s more than one way to harmonise a melody or sumfink

[ragman1]

And a million ways to write them down too :-)

[ragman1]

Here's a couple if we're posting YouTubes.

I've no idea what Marianne's talking about half the time but it's sort of interesting. And then Wayne goes potty :-)

[AllanAllen]

And, if I may ask, if you were writing it, where would you have put them?

If I was using the sheet to teach the song. Above the chord, like it’s done on iRealPro. Like it or not, people out there use iReal, easiest to just copy their format.

I would have left it off if it was for someone to read on a gig. Not that I don’t want people using alternative changes, I just want everyone using the same foundation.

[ragman1]

Well, I was really talking about books like the one pictured. No iRealPro in those days. Of course, if you write it yourself you can put them in anyhow you like. Or not at all, re. your point.

Have you got iRealPro? Can you take a photo of what a chart with alternate changes looks like?

[AllanAllen]

Of course, I thought I added that to my reply

[AllanAllen]

[Bop Head]

[...]The interlude is „Die Ballade von der Unzulänglichkeit menschlichen Strebens“, also from the Threepenny Opera.[...]

"Der Mensch ist gar nicht gut
Drum hau ihn auf den Hut.
Hast du ihm auf dem Hut gehaun
Dann wird er vielleicht gut.
Denn für dieses Leben
Ist der Mensch nicht gut genug
Darum haut ihm eben
Ruhig auf den Hut!"

Wow ...

[ragman1]

Allan -

Okay, just seen it, thanks. Well, nothing wrong with that but it's still all rather besides the point.

This began with the criticism of the way they were done in the book charts I posted. Personally, I think it was all very clear and completely readable. They never confused me. The only problem I had was trying them all out to see which ones worked best!

I blame technology, myself. My handwriting has seriously deteriorated. It used to be nice, clear and legible. These days all I do is type. It rewires the brain. I'm becoming ragman1.8.3.Beta. It's rather worrying :-)

[ragman1]

PS. Those Summertime changes look odd, even the non-alternative ones. What version is that? And who's George Gershwing? Is this thing reliable?

[AllanAllen]

PS. Those Summertime changes look odd, even the non-alternative ones. What version is that? And who's George Gershwing? Is this thing reliable?

He’s the third Gershwing brother. If you like his stuff you’ll love Shemp Gershwing

[ragman1]

Wasn't he the guy who climbed Everest? And played jazz guitar up there?



See? Oxygen starvation. Causes a LOT of funny stuff.

[ragman1]

Oh, well, in for a penny. Here's your odd chords (actually from the MJQ, I think). I DO like the shift to Bb7, nice :-)

Sorry, we better get back to the man with the knife after this!