Tunes I Claim I Know

[PMB]

Very cool! I've been trying to learn melodies/heads by ear for a couple hours a day as its good ear training. Consulting the ireal app there's like 1300 jazz tunes there so I'm going through them all in alphabetical order as I want to keep track of things from where I last left off. First tune to learn by ear... 26-2 (yikes!) but yeah for now I'm going to be doing tunes with the titles starting with the letter 'B'. By now I already forgotten most of the tune titles starting with the letter 'A' (its a lot of tunes!) but I'm sure if I listen to them again I can probably play it more easily. My favorite tune of the bunch I went through so far is A Child is Born... good stuff

This may seem like a logical approach but it's actually pretty random. I feel your practise time would be better served by learning a single composer's tunes as a group (Richard Rodgers might be a good place to start as his melodies are often quite diatonic) or concentrating on a form (blues, rhythm changes) or even songs featuring a particular chord sequence, eg, minor ii-vs descending by a tone (Woody n' You, Dreamsville).

The most practical approach may be tackling the most popular numbers called at local jam sessions. Here's a pretty good list of vocally-based tunes (you'd want to mix in some instrumental ones as well):

Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals Contents

Peter's advice is also solid - learn songs that you like, ideally with different keys and feels so that you can work towards playing a set or two.

New organ trio album:
A Passing Instant | PMB3

[jazznylon]

This may seem like a logical approach but it's actually pretty random. I feel your practise time would be better served by learning a single composer's tunes as a group (Richard Rodgers might be a good place to start as his melodies are often quite diatonic) or concentrating on a form (blues, rhythm changes) or even songs featuring a particular chord sequence, eg, minor ii-vs descending by a tone (Woody n' You, Dreamsville).

The most practical approach may be tackling the most popular numbers called at local jam sessions. Here's a pretty good list of vocally-based tunes (you'd want to mix in some instrumental ones as well):

Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals Contents

Peter's advice is also solid - learn songs that you like, ideally with different keys and feels so that you can work towards playing a set or two.

New organ trio album:
A Passing Instant | PMB3

Yeah I changed my approach a while ago lol I've seen the error of my ways. For now I'm just sticking to one tune (the more common easier ones first) for at least a week at a time but really dig deep into it. But your suggestions are actually pretty helpful I'll keep it mind thanks!

[Christian Miller]

Some dude on the internet said there’s an ski lift

[pamosmusic]

Some dude on the internet said there’s an ski lift

You mean instead of a ladder?

[pamosmusic]

Next installment:

Monk again … “We See.”

The head on this one is pretty tricky with all the counter-melody and chord punches. The changes aren’t too crazy, but I always find those static chord bridges he likes (a la Monk’s Dream) to be kind of tough. Hard to know where to go with those.

I’ve also been working a lot on double time — some of which lands. Some of which, not so much.

[pamosmusic]

Neeeeeeeeeeeeeeext.

Lullaby of Birdland.

I don’t know why I’ve always found this one hard. I know it was one of the first tunes I ever tried to learn and my guess is I was trying to play all the written changes, rather than simplifying them a bit … it’s pretty easy just to boil it down to one chord a measure and makes a lot more sense that way. Anyway … still working on some double time stuff, but also getting into some diminished passing chord stuff that was very handy for this one.

[pamosmusic]

Another one … Well You Needn’t.

Never cared for this tune. Always found those vampy sort of progressions hard to get around for some reason. But I had to brush up on it for a gig recently and enjoyed it more than I remembered.

[AllanAllen]

Neeeeeeeeeeeeeeext.

Lullaby of Birdland.

I don’t know why I’ve always found this one hard. I know it was one of the first tunes I ever tried to learn and my guess is I was trying to play all the written changes, rather than simplifying them a bit … it’s pretty easy just to boil it down to one chord a measure and makes a lot more sense that way. Anyway … still working on some double time stuff, but also getting into some diminished passing chord stuff that was very handy for this one.

I've been rehearsing with a really talented piano player, he's been helping me a lot simplifying charts. Cutting out approach chords and ii V's. Now I can slide into a Dom7 or add in my own ii V if a chord goes for a few bars. Instead of trying to add approach chords or turnarounds in a lead sheet that's already got them in there.

I guess I didn't realize the lead sheets already have subs and embellishments. We don't need to jazz up Real Book changes, they're already jazz.

[pamosmusic]

I've been rehearsing with a really talented piano player, he's been helping me a lot simplifying charts. Cutting out approach chords and ii V's. Now I can slide into a Dom7 or add in my own ii V if a chord goes for a few bars. Instead of trying to add approach chords or turnarounds in a lead sheet that's already got them in there.

I guess I didn't realize the lead sheets already have subs and embellishments. We don't need to jazz up Real Book changes, they're already jazz.

Yeah simplifying stuff a bit really opens up a lot of doors.

[pamosmusic]

So I’ve been fiddling with Cherokee lately. I’ve never particularly liked it.

because it’s fast.

Anyway … thought I’d do something a little different and post some of the stuff I’ve been practicing with it.

first chorus is half notes, all chord tones (1357).
second chorus is improvising, all chord tones.
third chorus is improvising, chord tones and single chromatic approaches.
fourth chorus is just playing.

Tempo is about 240. I’ve been practicing this sequence in different positions up to about 280 or so but it’s a mess starting about 240. Hardest part is definitely the middle two … attempting to improvise with all chord tones and no licks at that tempo is not easy.

anyway … enjoy (or not, more likely).

[pingu]

1294402[/URL]]I've been rehearsing with a really talented piano player, he's been helping me a lot simplifying charts. Cutting out approach chords and ii V's. Now I can slide into a Dom7 or add in my own ii V if a chord goes for a few bars. Instead of trying to add approach chords or turnarounds in a lead sheet that's already got them in there.

I guess I didn't realize the lead sheets already have subs and embellishments. We don't need to jazz up Real Book changes, they're already jazz.

yes i too realised lead sheets are just
one way of playing the chords ….

i’m getting a lot of value from
simplifying the chord to their
minimum ‘vanilla’

then you can build it up and
make it as complex or different as you want ….

but it’s best to go vanilla first
(or not

[Reg]

I've been rehearsing with a really talented piano player, he's been helping me a lot simplifying charts. Cutting out approach chords and ii V's. Now I can slide into a Dom7 or add in my own ii V if a chord goes for a few bars. Instead of trying to add approach chords or turnarounds in a lead sheet that's already got them in there.

I guess I didn't realize the lead sheets already have subs and embellishments. We don't need to jazz up Real Book changes, they're already jazz.

yea not really.... I mean maybe leave out some of the melody and change the rhythms... maybe even a few bars.

Man... Learning tunes is great.... but what are you learning and are you really improving. A better approach might be to just learn a section of the tune.... maybe even just a few bars and try and play it well.

Your not opening doors.... your missing them. Take the time to make analysis of tunes. Don't simplify.... just understand the changes. I mean most of the time when playing tunes your going to be playing changes. And also.... most don't play tunes the same way over and over. Different feels, styles etc... all of which ....changes what your actually going to play.

Maybe if one put the time into playing a few tunes and gets them down.... then use the tunes to expand and improve their... playing skill within those tunes. Might have better results....

[pamosmusic]

A better approach might be to just learn a section of the tune.... maybe even just a few bars and try and play it well.

Yeah plus one on this.

Maybe it's the crusty classical training in me, but I think folks sometimes take jazz tunes like they're simple. But they're not. You can still treat them like classical pieces where you work on one phrase all day. Then two phrases the next day. Then one phrase again. That kind of thing. Folks zoom through the whole thing and then are like ... man I can't memorize this tune.

And also.... most don't play tunes the same way over and over.

This I think is the utility of simplifying the tune a bit. Like if a person learns a rhythm changes with two chords per bar, then it's not always obvious how it can be altered. With one chord per bar (Bb, to F, for example) it becomes a little easier to see the way that a really good musician might play with the changes (Gb to F, or maybe Bb to B like in Red Cross, or maybe just an F pedal, or whatever). So there's some use in simplifying the tunes, provided they're not over simplified. Which I guess is a fine line.

[Reg]

Yea... I agree, I typically will verbally give a quick analysis or feel/style que. Or if someone else has something... I'll just go with it. But that generally isn't a simplification... it's more of style which reflects harmony, articulations, feels etc... Which would imply what type of intro, outro and interludes can be used.

I guess it's not like leave changes out... more of what changes to use. Most play Chord Patterns rather than just changes on lead sheets etc... And I understand how space works... so sometimes it's about what your implying even though you don't actually play all of it.

Anyway sorry to post on your thread.... but there is so much BS posted all the time and I hate to see musicians waste their time... playing jazz should be fun not difficult.

[pamosmusic]

... playing jazz should be fun not difficult.

Or both.

[Reg]

Or both.

hey Peter.... why not work on a tune and maybe get it down a little better. Say Lullaby of Birdland

Maybe even change or have different harmonic organization. Start with the "A" section, or even just the 1st two bars.

I mean "A" is just a I VI II V in Fmin and I VI II V in relative maj. or Ab and the "B" section is Just a II V of II- and the II V in Ab with a turnaround.

So that basically standard Jazz chord patterns... right.

You can play the Fmm game... or the old school F Har min with added b7th. Or you could call the D-7b5 a sub of Bb7... again MM.

I guess my point is there are lots of possible approaches... but pick one and go with it. And try and get tune up to speed. Usually when you decide on what approach you want to use... the rest falls into place. Again start with small sections.... chord patterns.

I don't think there is a wrong or right.... just a choice.

I'm just trying to help... if not... no problems.

[pamosmusic]

Hi Reg … that’s sort of the purpose of the thread. It’s a Works in Progress sort of thing.

I decided to take a hiatus from learning new tunes and I’ve just been going through a (lengthy) list of tunes I used to play or that I learned but that didn’t stick or whatever.

[AllanAllen]

yea not really.... I mean maybe leave out some of the melody and change the rhythms... maybe even a few bars.

Man... Learning tunes is great.... but what are you learning and are you really improving. A better approach might be to just learn a section of the tune.... maybe even just a few bars and try and play it well.

Your not opening doors.... your missing them. Take the time to make analysis of tunes. Don't simplify.... just understand the changes. I mean most of the time when playing tunes your going to be playing changes. And also.... most don't play tunes the same way over and over. Different feels, styles etc... all of which ....changes what your actually going to play.

Maybe if one put the time into playing a few tunes and gets them down.... then use the tunes to expand and improve their... playing skill within those tunes. Might have better results....

Yeah, it's analysis. Knowing which ii V's are part of the tune and which ones are turnarounds and can be cut, replaced or whatever. Which parts need to be there and which ones I can change the next time around.

[pamosmusic]

Yeah, it's analysis. Knowing which ii V's are part of the tune and which ones are turnarounds and can be cut, replaced or whatever. Which parts need to be there and which ones I can change the next time around.

Or which parts of a sequence of chords can be left out. Like the ii-Vs you’re more likely to leave out the ii than leave out the entire thing.

Lullaby of Birdland, for example, is

Fm6 Dm7b5 G7 C7 …. So the first pair can be condensed to just Fm6 and the second to C7. I’d probably play the G7 too if I were comping for someone else, but you can streamline things by their function.

Turnarounds can usually be understood as I and V and embellished freely from there.

Lullaby of Birdland I usually play something like

Fm - C7 - Fm - Eb7
Ab6 - Eb7 Ab6 - C7

And that’s for improvising or whatever … comping I play a few more things generally. Twos with the fives and stuff.

[Reg]

yea that's cool Perter...

And Lullaby

I world hear Fmin7 to D7#9 / G-7 Db13 C13 Following melody and C7#9 on + of beat 3. /

Then Ab6/9 F7#9 / Bb-7 Eb7#9/ Ab6/9 Db9 G-7b5 C7#9/

I'll go to a different thread to start posting.... and a good approach would be to work on some tunes in Fmin
-Lullaby
-Funk in Deep Freeze
- Birks Works for a different Form but same feels.

Yea Allan if you want to go back to your Oleo on songs thread... we could go through tunes and I'll help with analysis understandings....That's what I do LOL

[pamosmusic]

I Hear a Rhapsody.

Nothing terribly hard about this one. I just find I’m re-learning every year or so. Which is annoying.

[Bop Head]

I Hear a Rhapsody.

Nothing terribly hard about this one. I just find I’m re-learning every year or so. Which is annoying.

I like the camera position with your ears between the flower pots.

[pamosmusic]

I like the camera position with your ears between the flower pots.

Thats about the only good thing you can say about my ears on this one.

[pamosmusic]

My Shining Hour.

This one is actually not one I learned before. But I figure I'll keep them all here.