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If you were auditioning guitar players for your band or say for duo guitar gigs, and each person could only play one tune for you, would you rather have them play a really up-tempo tune, like Oleo, or would you rather have them play a jazz ballad, and why?
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08-28-2023 06:02 PM
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Honestly people are going to want to give the Miles answer, but I’d ask for up tempo. Holding down those quicker tempos in a duo can get hairy real quick.
EDIT: this is in reference to the story about how Miles was incredibly impressed that Herbie Hancock chose to audition for his band with a melody statement of Embraceable You.
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Neither, I can't play fast and ballads are boring for the audience. Swing swing swing.
Okay, joking aside, I would test their comping. Can they end a song the same speed we start it with.
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If the ballad was done rubato, I definitely wouldn't choose it.
First thing I care about is good time, which is more difficult on a fast tempo tune.
But, in reality, I'd pick something on the high side of medium.
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Well that, my friend, depends on the average age of the audience.
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Misty is like Freebird in certain circles.
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I wish I could find that audience. I personally love ballads.
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I mean … ballads are objectively the best tunes. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
I’ll die on that hill.
For what it’s worth … if by some miracle so many people want to play with me that I’m having auditions, I would probably ask them to play something like Stella or All of You that is commonly played anywhere from a ballad to a fairly bright swing. First to see what they choose to do with it; second to see if they can do it the opposite way.
If I’m auditioning a guitar duo specifically, and picking between something up or something slow, I’d pick the up tune just because that particular vibe is so demanding in that particular setting.
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You should check your history, some of the BIGGEST hit songs ever, and most beautiful songs ever written have been ballads. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
A well done ballad can be a very emotionally moving experience for the audience, that can really touch an audience in a way that fast songs can't always do. Just a few quick examples that come to mind:
Stairway to Heaven, happens to be THE most requested song on rock radio stations, and still is to this day, almost 50 years after it was written, and the 1st half of the song is a ballad.
Imagine, by John Lennon
Hey Jude, The Beatles/Paul McCartney. The Beatles had a number of hits that were ballads
Purple Rain, Prince.
In the jazz world, Frank Sinatra had a pretty big hit with a ballad, something about doing it his way? Nat king Cole's biggest hits were ballads, Mona Lisa and Unforgettable, and there are some other hit ballads in his catalog. The list of hit songs that are ballads is actually quite long.
A beautiful ballad done well by an artist can touch an audience emotionally in a very visceral, moving, emotional way. Musicians who overlook the power of ballads are really missing something important in music.
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I’m fairly certain Allan was joking:
My favorite tunes are mostly ballads, though I tend to like them at maybe a walking tempo.I wish I could find that audience. I personally love ballads.
Body and Soul.
Embraceable You
Ill Be Seeing You.
[chef’s kiss]
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Though it’s worth mentioning that all the ballads you mention have singers. I wish folks had the same patience for instrumental ballads, but they’re a harder sell than Sarah Vaughan.
As much as I love them.
I guess thats the reason Clifford double-times the bridge.
N.B. Clifford’s solo on this track is possibly the perfect jazz solo. Not sure it gets better.
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I know, I just wanted to mention what I wrote. Oh okay, ha ha ha, there, I laughed. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
I like them all, ballads, mid-tempo, and up-tempo tunes, and I think a good set should consist of all three. But yes, there are some really beautiful jazz ballads that are also a joy to play, and among my most favorite songs too. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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+1 for Sarah Vaughn Originally Posted by pamosmusic
However, your main premise is a misconception, IMO. THE song that put Kenny G. on the map is a tune called "Songbird," an instrumental ballad, that actually reached number 10 on the pop charts. That instrumental ballad put him on the Map and made him a platinum selling, internationally known artist.
His next big hit, which got even bigger than Songbird, because he was already a well known artist, because of Songbird, again reached the top 10 of the Billboard top 100, topped the jazz charts, and won him a Grammy, that tune was also an instrumental ballad.
I know, I know, it's smooth jazz, and most of us here, including myself, strongly prefer bebop to watered down smooth jazz, and Pat Metheny hates his playing (LOL), but he just happens to make my point beautifully, in this case. So even though it was smooth jazz, they are instrumental jazz ballads, and it was two instrumental ballads that made him a star, sold millions of records for him, and won him his first Grammy.
Don't underestimate the power of ballads to move an audience, both instrumental or sung by a vocalist. It takes an excellent improviser to pull it off on an instrumental, though.
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You'll forgive me but I don't see this as a serious question. If I was auditioning any kind of player for solo or duo work (especially duo) I wouldn't ask them to play only one thing. Of course, if it became obvious after a minute or two that they couldn't play, that would be that, but otherwise I'd ask them to play at least three different things, a ballad, a faster more modern thing, and probably a bossa. And I'd try them out with someone else as well, and they better be good. Originally Posted by James Haze
Personally, I've never had to audition players because they were always known entities before I started. Luckily the talent was available at the time.
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The question I asked was clearly a hypothetical one. Are you familiar with the word "hypothetical?" Apparently not, so I'll refer you to Merriam-Webster dictionary: Originally Posted by ragman1
Hypothetical adjective
: involving or being based on a suggested idea or theory : being or involving a hypothesis: CONJECTURAL
People discuss hypothetical situations all the time. I just watched a program where a bunch of scientists were discussing lots of imaginary, far out, hypothetical situations. It can make for some interesting, imaginative conversations.
I asked my AI brain, why people engage in conversations about hypothetical situations, and this is what my AI brain said: (The first one alone is enough reason to discuss them on a forum)
There are a few potential reasons why people discuss hypothetical or unlikely scenarios:
- Imagination - It can be fun and intellectually engaging to imagine "what if" scenarios, even if improbable. Allows for creative thinking.
- Curiosity - Speculating about unlikely situations satisfies curiosity about how things could be different.
- Preparation - Analyzing unlikely scenarios helps prepare for the small chance they do occur. Thinking through contingencies.
- Connection - Sharing obscure hypotheticals can help build connections when you find someone who also finds the topic interesting.
- Understanding - Contemplating hypotheticals allows us to better understand possibilities, principles, and the reasons things are the way they are.
- Escape - Daydreaming about alternate realities provides entertainment and escape from mundane realities.
- Coping - Imagining unlikely events can be a way of mentally coping with real anxieties and fears.
- Understanding Others - Considering hypothetical perspectives helps foster empathy and see other viewpoints.
So discussing unlikely hypotheticals can stimulate the imagination, satisfy curiosity, prepare us for surprises, and strengthen understanding.
I will add to that, it can open new perspectives on things by looking at them from a different angle that people may not often consider.
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Not necessarily, you might have been wanting to audition people. Originally Posted by James Haze
The only good answer to your question, hypothetical or not, is: I wouldn't ask them to play one thing, it's not a sensible audition. I'd ask them to play the kind of thing they'd need to play for the gig.
Unless the gig list was the same kind of tune over and over, of course :-)
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Id agree it’s not a sensible audition but it’s the way the world works a lot of the time. Originally Posted by ragman1
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Terrific.
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Medium. Hardest tempo as quiet as it’s kept. Can they swing? Originally Posted by James Haze
But all tempos have their challenges…
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Yeah I’ve been working on bunches of walking ballads lately. 80 to like … 100 is the unsweet spot for me. Super hard. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Dan Wilson always calls those kind of slow-medium swings “adult tempos.”
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however hard 100 is, I bet it isn’t as hard as 107 Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Or 98
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I’ll pass on some players after only a few notes. But I’d never hire anybody on the basis of how they played one tune. I’d start by asking him or her to play any tune he or she likes a lot. If the first one hooks me, I’d ask for a second one that’s totally different in style, tempo, feel etc. And if that goes well I’d call a random tune in yet another style of my choice in a key other than the original. If those 3 all go well, I’d set up a half hour to play through several tunes from one of my set lists before scheduling a tryout gig together. Originally Posted by James Haze
Other useful audition challenges (at least for me) include playing a tune in other than its written time signature or style and sight reading a chord chart. Since perfect cold sight reading on melody isn’t necessary for any gigs I do (and I can’t do it very well myself), I wouldn’t ask a potential musical partner to do it.
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Dang. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
My usual criteria:
1. I got their number from someone I like.
2. They are available.
Given those two things, I’ll play with someone without ever having heard them play.
Flipside is that I’ve also had some folks I don’t call again. Usually that’s not for musical reasons; but rather for being weird or difficult to work with.
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There's only one problem with that approach. The audience doesn't know or care why something doesn't sound right. They just know they don't like it, and everyone on the stage is held in equal contempt. As the leader, my name's on the marquee. Everybody's now a critic with a worldwide platform for spreading their opinions, so whatever they don't like becomes my fault and common knowledge. I'm backing a singer this weekend as a sideman, so I reviewed the playlist yesteday with her drummer (who's an old friend and wonderful musician). He told me that she won't use a great local bass player we all love because they once played a club in which the sound guy did a poor job and (among other sound problems) the bass was plagued by episodic feedback. So she blamed the bass player for the less-than-perfect night and has told many people she doesn't like the way he plays. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
As you point out, how easy it is to work with seomone is as important as how good they are. But the time to find that out is before you're on stage with them. This is especially true when your band has to accompany or play with performers you didn't choose. The club in which my trio plays a show every Thursday night hires a vocalist for the first hour of our show almost every week - and they're billed as performing with me all over the internet. Some are fantastic and very easy to work with, but others are unreasonably picky about a casual hour that's described on the website and in instructions given to them as "no charts, no originals, just standards in an informal setting". The last thing I need is a sideman who's more concerned about his or her solos than about the music and the band. We're not paid for rehearsals or prep time, but I always make up a pdf playbook with an annotated list at the front and the charts in order and in the correct keys. I also send the bass player an iReal playlist with charts he can transpose if necessary, just in case the vocalist changes keys on us. I don't want to be publicly shamed for having done a bad job (or having been thought to, even if I didn't).
It's common for even the best singer to skip a verse, modulate in the middle of a tune, or otherwise try to sound like a recording he or she likes without telling me beforehand. If we're not all listening carefully and anticipating change from what we'd do ourselves, there's a trainwreck just around the corner. And if we're not all flexible enough to play any tune in any key and style, that vocalist won't book another show with us and will tell everybody he or she kbnows that I did a poor job.
So I won't bring anybody on a gig unless and until I know I can count on them to be an equal participant. The audience and club owner deserve no less, and my reputation depends on it.
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Yeah. All that makes sense. But there are a couple considerations.
The first is that a reputation also lives and dies by who a person recommends. If some dude I kind of know recommends some dude I don’t know, I’ll be a little cautious. If someone I know well and play with and respect recommends someone, then I’ll take their word.
The other thing is that you’d have to be in a market that supports what you’re talking about here. That’s a lot of commitment from a backing musician. Bigger markets absolutely don’t support that. I’m in a sort of medium sized market now and it’s kind of case by case. I’ve been asked to rehearse for standards gigs and I politely decline. No one has been put off by that yet. If I show up and don’t know enough tunes for the gig, I would fully expect not to be called back.
The reverse of that is that, for me, I expect a bandleader to be put together and have their music ready and be able to communicate effectively on the gig, the same way I expect a hired musician to be flexible and professional and prepared. If I’m being asked to audition or rehearse for a gig, then I’m expecting payment for that time.
I think if I’m leading a group, I’m maybe just confident in my ability to work with whoever I end up with and keep the plane in the air until it’s time to land it. It might not be the product I was hoping for, but I think it’ll be musical and fine and they’ll go at the bottom of the list when I have to call someone next time. That’s a personal preference thing, I guess.
Caveat: A gig with original music is a bit different.
EDIT: it’s also a reality of my situation. When I moved after college I just didn’t know anyone and was starting over, but there were enough musicians on the scene and I was able to meet some people at sessions so I felt okay just going with god when I needed guys for a gig. Now I’ve moved back pretty close to where I went to college. Don’t know a lot of people again, but do have some old friends who I really trust. They’ll say “sure he’s not bad, but…” and I can trust them.
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