Question about a tune to play for an audition

[pamosmusic]

What are you talking about? No one was paying me for the rehearsal session, either, so we are all the same in that respect.

Just out of curiosity, how much do you pay for a rehearsal session?

I don’t ask them to rehearse. I expect folks to probably know Oleo (or some rhythm changes) and a couple ballads already. If not, I guess that’s on me for assuming.

[Christian Miller]

Yeah you wouldn’t rehearse for a standards gig

That said I’ve done plenty of unpaid rehearsals for projects I care playing original music about and I know lot of musicians do so as a matter of course.

[ragman1]

If I thought it was a hypothetical question, I wouldn't have taken the time to answer it.

It's the same answer whether it's hypothetical or not.

[ragman1]

That said I’ve done plenty of unpaid rehearsals for projects I care playing original music about and I know lot of musicians do so as a matter of course.

Quite right too.

As for the standards, I do get very fed up hearing this kind of thing, like jazz musicians have some kind of super-power that obviates rehearsal. No, you wouldn't have to work out the tune, etc, but you need to settle on intros, outros, and any other things you might want to include to make it interesting, not just churn out some old song because it's old. That's a recipe for disaster, stumbling over each other, trying to make instant adjustments on the fly, and all the rest of it.

It's serious BS. And if you think the audience wouldn't notice, you're dreaming.

[pamosmusic]

It's serious BS. And if you think the audience wouldn't notice, you're dreaming.

Well that really depends on who’s doing the playing.

It’s certainly not a super power. It’s just knowing the music well.

I was at a session the other night and the piano player wanted to play Body and Soul and he said “I’ll play an intro” and I said “okay” and he started playing the bridge. Cool intro. I played the melody, so at the end of the tune I played a big cadenza and ended on a major 9 sharp eleven chord. He even played the sharp eleven with me.

[pamosmusic]

Yeah you wouldn’t rehearse for a standards gig

That said I’ve done plenty of unpaid rehearsals for projects I care playing original music about and I know lot of musicians do so as a matter of course.

Yeah way back on page negative six I mentioned original music is kind of a different thing. I used to do reading sessions with friends where we would just get together and workshop new stuff we were working on. With that it was sort of reciprocal where we’d kind of all play each others stuff when the situation arose. Kind of like a co-op or something.

(It should also be said that if someone just wants to hang out and play, I’m all about it. I kind of have a pet peeve about folks who always seem to be after another project. Like everything’s a new venture. That’s kind of a thing.)

[ragman1]

Well that really depends on who’s doing the playing.

It’s certainly not a super power. It’s just knowing the music well.

I was at a session the other night and the piano player wanted to play Body and Soul and he said “I’ll play an intro” and I said “okay” and he started playing the bridge. Cool intro. I played the melody, so at the end of the tune I played a big cadenza and ended on a major 9 sharp eleven chord. He even played the sharp eleven with me.

He felt it coming, I expect. A good musician can do that. All sounds good to me.

But that was a session, of course. At an unrehearsed gig, if the tune is Stella, they can't stand about deciding on the first chord... they love that discussion here :-)

[Christian Miller]

He felt it coming, I expect. A good musician can do that. All sounds good to me.

But that was a session, of course. At an unrehearsed gig, if the tune is Stella, they can't stand about deciding on the first chord... they love that discussion here :-)

well that’s simple, Dbo7 or summary execution via Kenny G exposure

[AllanAllen]

He felt it coming, I expect. A good musician can do that. All sounds good to me.

But that was a session, of course. At an unrehearsed gig, if the tune is Stella, they can't stand about deciding on the first chord... they love that discussion here :-)

All the minutiae that gets discussed here… you’d think we were surgeons.

In real life, if you can blow bluesy on stage for 2 choruses and come out in time you’re above average. Add some
solid comping to that and you can start your own combo.

[pamosmusic]

All the minutiae that gets discussed here… you’d think we were surgeons.

In real life, if you can blow bluesy on stage for 2 choruses and come out in time you’re above average. Add some
solid comping to that and you can start your own combo.

Ah but the minutiae is the fun part.

Being able to expect folks to follow and lead in turn. Being able to expect literacy in a pretty rich tradition. That’s super super fun.

Like you go to any big jazz town in the world and call If I Were a Bell, you’re going to hear this without any discussion before hand:

(If you get a real clown in the group you might even have someone do the Miles mumble.)

[pamosmusic]

I used to play at the (late, lamented) Bar Next Door and we’d do a whole set without stopping or deciding tunes before hand.

I’d been playing with those particular dudes for a long time, but still. It’s a blast to play with people who are that open and that knowledgeable and that quick.

Not often you get that or can expect that, but it’s something that’s out there. And the vibe is totally plausible in small doses.

I don’t think it’s super controversial to say that the emphasis in most jazz scenes is generally on spontaneity and knowing tunes. Degrees of that, obviously. And everyone does their own thing. But still, it’s kind of a common thread.

For what it’s worth, these were the dudes from my deep Brooklyn neighborhood gig. Classic Outer Borough Thai Restaurant As Proving Ground trope. Deep roots in the tradition obvs

[John A.]

One of the cool things about jazz is that a bunch of complete strangers can get together and make coherent music without any rehearsal or written scores. I walked into a jam session at a bar in a foreign country where I don't speak the language a few weeks ago. Called "Unit 7" and "Stella". Everybody knew 'em, spotaneous intros, trading fours, endings, etc., all without a hitch. Big fun, high quality musicianship. I don't know of any other genre that enables that so easily.

[ragman1]

I don't know of any other genre that enables that so easily.

Oh, I do. Folk, blues, country, bluegrass... you know, the parking lot thing. And probably some church stuff too.

But they don't have forums where they quibble about chords, harmony, arrangements, etc, ad infinitum. I mean, Kumbaya is Kumbaya, right?

[pamosmusic]

Oh, I do. Folk, blues, country, bluegrass... you know, the parking lot thing. And probably some church stuff too.

Oh good point—you’re not wrong about this.

But they don't have forums where they quibble about chords, harmony, arrangements, etc, ad infinitum. I mean, Kumbaya is Kumbaya, right?

But I bet you’re wrong about this. There’s a corner of the internet for every esoteric argument.

[Christian Miller]

Ah but the minutiae is the fun part.

Being able to expect folks to follow and lead in turn. Being able to expect literacy in a pretty rich tradition. That’s super super fun.

Like you go to any big jazz town in the world and call If I Were a Bell, you’re going to hear this without any discussion before hand:

(If you get a real clown in the group you might even have someone do the Miles mumble.)

i’m ready and willing to Britbong just looking at the cover

[rpjazzguitar]

If there are still standards gigs without books around here (SF Bay Area), somehow I've missed them.

Can't recall the last time I saw or played with a band that did that.

Even on standards gigs I see a book or IRealPro. Not necessarily every player on every tune, but some players on some tunes.

That said, everybody knows Stella, TWNBAY, Blue Bossa and tunes like that, but I just don't come across gigs where the group is playing everything from memory. Maybe I should get to hotel bars more often. But, I get to some and there are books or tablets.

One partial exception: a jam where the sitters-in were not using charts. But, the organist, who was kicking bass, had IRealPro open on his phone. The leader, a musician with a Grammy, seemed to know all the tunes, but he was accommodating young players by staying within the top 50 or so jam tunes.

[pamosmusic]

If there are still standards gigs without books around here (SF Bay Area), somehow I've missed them.

Can't recall the last time I saw or played with a band that did that.

Even on standards gigs I see a book or IRealPro. Not necessarily every player on every tune, but some players on some tunes.

That said, everybody knows Stella, TWNBAY, Blue Bossa and tunes like that, but I just don't come across gigs where the group is playing everything from memory. Maybe I should get to hotel bars more often. But, I get to some and there are books or tablets.

One partial exception: a jam where the sitters-in were not using charts. But, the organist, who was kicking bass, had IRealPro open on his phone. The leader, a musician with a Grammy, seemed to know all the tunes, but he was accommodating young players by staying within the top 50 or so jam tunes.

Not really around here either. I see a few, but mostly iReal is somewhere on stage.

I’m just an old school hard ass or something on that point, I guess.

Just kidding. I think iReal is awesome and I’ll take it on a gig even if I hope not to use it. I think, I’d just rather play stuff people feel comfortable on even if they’re less interesting tunes. Not how it goes most of the time though. Which is fine.

My favorite session I used to go to had kind of an ideal vibe. Lots of really good musicians which is obviously cool, but also new folks would come up. When a new person came up they’d start trying to settle on a tune.

tune one comes up: you don’t know it.
tune two comes up: you don’t know it.
someone looks at you and says—totally friendly—okay, man, what do you want to play?

You’d say what you know and everyone would play it and sound good. Everyone always friendly and supportive. But the white hot shame of that question was more than enough to make you go home and learn the other two tunes.

[ragman1]

But I bet you’re wrong about this.

'I bet' isn't PROOF

[pamosmusic]

'I bet' isn't PROOF

But Google is.

[John A.]

Oh, I do. Folk, blues, country, bluegrass... you know, the parking lot thing. And probably some church stuff too.

But they don't have forums where they quibble about chords, harmony, arrangements, etc, ad infinitum. I mean, Kumbaya is Kumbaya, right?

I’ve done a lot of blues jams (blues was my main thing for a long time), and a bit of folk and country, as well as rock (including in foreign lands). There's way more in the way of fumbling about looking for common repertoire and/or teaching each other tunes on the spot, false starts and train wrecks, etc. At least IME, not the same ease and likelihood of producing a polished performance on the spot as with jazz.

[John A.]

If there are still standards gigs without books around here (SF Bay Area), somehow I've missed them.

Can't recall the last time I saw or played with a band that did that.

Even on standards gigs I see a book or IRealPro. Not necessarily every player on every tune, but some players on some tunes.

That said, everybody knows Stella, TWNBAY, Blue Bossa and tunes like that, but I just don't come across gigs where the group is playing everything from memory. Maybe I should get to hotel bars more often. But, I get to some and there are books or tablets.

One partial exception: a jam where the sitters-in were not using charts. But, the organist, who was kicking bass, had IRealPro open on his phone. The leader, a musician with a Grammy, seemed to know all the tunes, but he was accommodating young players by staying within the top 50 or so jam tunes.

Most of mine are people playing standards from memory, with charts only for originals here and there, and iReal maybe popping up for a tune here or there.

[Christian Miller]

Not really around here either. I see a few, but mostly iReal is somewhere on stage.

I’m just an old school hard ass or something on that point, I guess.

Just kidding. I think iReal is awesome and I’ll take it on a gig even if I hope not to use it. I think, I’d just rather play stuff people feel comfortable on even if they’re less interesting tunes. Not how it goes most of the time though. Which is fine.

My favorite session I used to go to had kind of an ideal vibe. Lots of really good musicians which is obviously cool, but also new folks would come up. When a new person came up they’d start trying to settle on a tune.

tune one comes up: you don’t know it.
tune two comes up: you don’t know it.
someone looks at you and says—totally friendly—okay, man, what do you want to play?

You’d say what you know and everyone would play it and sound good. Everyone always friendly and supportive. But the white hot shame of that question was more than enough to make you go home and learn the other two tunes.

Nice. Yes things like that are a very natural way to build repetoire.

For a no pressure dinner jazz type gig I’d rather play the odd half remembered tune, or even lughole something simple I don’t know, with a few mistakes, but listening and getting it together better over the course of the number than relying on iReal. But maybe I’m in a minority.

A slightly wrong chord here or there, some missed changes, no big deal for a gig like that. I think when people start reading a chart a lot of the awareness gets switched off.

There’s something nice about really listening to pick out that chord change you’ve forgotten instead of going into chord robot mode.

And small mistakes will not be noticed by the audience.

there’s also gigs where you won’t have time to find the page on the iReal.

Transposing tunes is good too

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

For a no pressure dinner jazz type gig id rather play the odd half remembered tune, or even lughole something simple I don’t know, with a few mistakes, but listening and getting it together better over the course of the number than relying on iReal. But maybe I’m in a minority. A wrong chord here or there, some missed changes no big deal.

I’ve been with you on most things this, Christian. But on this I strongly disagree. A gig is a gig, and employers deserve a professional performance, no matter how simple or rudimentary.

You never know who’s listening to you. A few mistakes, wrong chords, or missed changes could mean being passed over for a gig. These days it could even lead to a critical social media post with a video clip if the clams were really foul.

If anyone needs a chord chart or lead sheet to reduce errors, use it. But be sure it’s correct and that the whole band is using the same changes etc.

[AllanAllen]

I’ve done a lot of blues jams (blues was my main thing for a long time), and a bit of folk and country, as well as rock (including in foreign lands). There's way more in the way of fumbling about looking for common repertoire and/or teaching each other tunes on the spot, false starts and train wrecks, etc. At least IME, not the same ease and likelihood of producing a polished performance on the spot as with jazz.

You just need a little instruction in blues. Shuffle in A, slow in D with a quick four, rhumba in F#.

The slow ones are almost always in 6/8 but the blues guys just know the feel. Or they don’t want you to know they know theory.

[John A.]

You just need a little instruction in blues. Shuffle in A, slow in D with a quick four, rhumba in F#.

The slow ones are almost always in 6/8 but the blues guys just know the feel. Or they don’t want you to know they know theory.

Huh?