Oleo - what melody version do you play actually?

**pamosmusic** · 12-09-2023, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by AllanAllen

Man, I don’t know all the names.

x5423x is D, xx777x is D, xx12 11 10x is D, 9x777x is D. All fair game to me.

Well it’s not so much about the names, but they’re organized and can give you a way work through them. And voiceleading tends to be easier to play with with the same types of voicings.

**AllanAllen** · 12-09-2023, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by djg

make another vid with all the chords between V and VIII position.

**AllanAllen** · 12-09-2023, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by pamosmusic

Well it’s not so much about the names, but they’re organized and can give you a way work through them. And voiceleading tends to be easier to play with with the same types of voicings.

A year ago I made all these charts of inversions and worked really hard on them. I was running ii V I VI stuff in a specific part of the neck. Up and down, around the circle of fourths. Then I realized I hadn’t learned a tune in months and when I played summertime I still used the Mickey Baker chords I learned 3 years ago. So I left those behind.

**pamosmusic** · 12-09-2023, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by AllanAllen

A year ago I made all these charts of inversions and worked really hard on them. I was running ii V I VI stuff in a specific part of the neck. Up and down, around the circle of fourths. Then I realized I hadn’t learned a tune in months and when I played summertime I still used the Mickey Baker chords I learned 3 years ago. So I left those behind.

I suppose that’s fair.

I think I just mean that you don’t have to learn them all. Picking something and living with it for a minute can be really rewarding.

**AllanAllen** · 12-09-2023, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by pamosmusic

I suppose that’s fair.

I think I just mean that you don’t have to learn them all. Picking something and living with it for a minute can be really rewarding.

I think that’s what I did??

**AllanAllen** · 12-10-2023, 09:51 AM

I looked into the book. Standard notation chords, I know myself, and my reading level. I’m not going to use it. Not at this time.

**pamosmusic** · 12-10-2023, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by AllanAllen

I looked into the book. Standard notation chords, I know myself, and my reading level. I’m not going to use it. Not at this time.

Well for what it’s worth … if I were to attempt a translation of what Reg refers to as “chord patterns,” it would be something like “useful moves over common changes.” If that’s the case, then the Galbraith book is basically one huge collection of them.

By which I mean, you don’t have to read it straight down. Pick a ii-V from the first etude and get it down. Play it in a few other keys. Try it on different string sets if possible. Then move on to a different ii-V, or move on to the next measure or whatever it is you decide to do.

It’s really useful even if you don’t want to read it down. Probably more useful, the more you pause and chew on a phrase.

Then of course, the advantage of having things written down. What notes are there? Can you achieve the same voiceleading if you voice the chord differently? That kind of thing.

**Christian Miller** · 12-10-2023, 10:36 AM

The Randy Vincent Guitarists introduction to jazz has some good stuff on comping

**pamosmusic** · 12-10-2023, 10:42 AM

I remember using the Andrew Green one? I remember liking it but don’t remember a lot of details. I know there was more explanation and stuff than the Galbraith but overall wasn’t terribly different. Maybe a bit more modern vibe.

**pamosmusic** · 12-10-2023, 01:12 PM

I started working through Shiny Stockings from the Galbraith book again today. We’ll see how long I stick to it.

**AllanAllen** · 12-10-2023, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by pamosmusic

I started working through Shiny Stockings from the Galbraith book again today. We’ll see how long I stick to it.

If you don't post a video here it didn't happen.

I was looking over the song list just now, thinking I could use these in my repertoire and I should maybe suck it up and dig into the book.

I'll run with Reg for a while then probably pivot to Galbraith when he's out of time... or patience. Can't do everything at once.

**pamosmusic** · 12-10-2023, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by AllanAllen

If you don't post a video here it didn't happen.

Ha. Fair enough.

Then I guess you’ll be waiting to see if Reg posts that video of himself comping at his gig last night too.

**rpjazzguitar** · 12-10-2023, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by pamosmusic

I started working through Shiny Stockings from the Galbraith book again today. We’ll see how long I stick to it.

I appreciate the reference to this book. I just took a look at it -- hadn't seen it before. It's the real thing. You can learn how to comp from it. Not that it's going to be that easy. You'd have to be a very good reader to get through it quickly. It's all notes on stems and some of them are not typical grips. I also like the rhythmic content -- he shows you when to hit the chords. Very well done.

**pamosmusic** · 12-10-2023, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

Not that it's going to be that easy. You'd have to be a very good reader to get through it quickly.

Alas easy and quick aren’t on the table in the first place.

Ive been hacking away at chords forever now and I still halfway suck.

**Reg** · 12-10-2023, 05:09 PM

Hey Allan... here's a really quick vid, just got back and have to go to a gig soon..... anyway Comping tools are what most seem to be talking about, very useful but.... comping is about A reference Form... and how your going to fill in the blanks. How are you going to organize the space to support the melody and then pull from that organization to create and develop relationships for solos etc.

I know I'm being vague... but using Scrapple.... the Form is AABA and continuing in the same style and feel we used on Oleo etc.... Usually you make quick analysis and make choices or the setting and context make choices.
Tempo, harmony and shape of how you want or the tune wants the tune to create "Reference"
Usually make intro that helps imply what your going to do.

Once you make choices... you organize how your going to use the space... 1st "A" supports melody, harmonically, rhythmically and begins to imply who your going to develop the tune, melody and solo etc...
2nd "A" expands and sets up "B" and last "A" completes whatever you want to do.... You now have material to pull from to support solos and also expand ... with what you played as Reference..

Anyway... I need to go... but here short Vid and I'll try and record tune at Gig this afternoon

**Reg** · 12-11-2023, 01:50 PM

Yea... didn't record anything no time and lazy... there were people recording and taking lot's of pic... so I'm sure they will be sent to me...
here's one of RP and I... LOL

Rick upgraded his amp set up.... huge improvement, he sounded really great, was fun. Eric B was on drums... we were killin the rhythmic thing. I'm performing with Eric wed. night in a BB... he'll be playing Vibes.

Allan you still want to work on comping... I could notate or tab voicings and rhythmic parts...

**pamosmusic** · 12-11-2023, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Reg

here's one of RP and I... LOL

I think maybe your video didn’t load?

**AllanAllen** · 12-11-2023, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Reg

Yea... didn't record anything no time and lazy... there were people recording and taking lot's of pic... so I'm sure they will be sent to me...
here's one of RP and I... LOL

Rick upgraded his amp set up.... huge improvement, he sounded really great, was fun. Eric B was on drums... we were killin the rhythmic thing. I'm performing with Eric wed. night in a BB... he'll be playing Vibes.

Allan you still want to work on comping... I could notate or tab voicings and rhythmic parts...

I do want to keep working on it. I tried playing around with the whole note, half note, quarter note strums though the progression a little. But only for a few minutes, I went to the city a holiday party yesterday and didn't get to practice.

**Reg** · 12-11-2023, 10:02 PM

Yea no problems... we're all busy LOL. It's a great time of year.

**Reg** · 12-12-2023, 12:47 PM

OK... take a look at Birk's Works. Old simple Min. blues in Fmin. Any Min. tune really... but 12 bar blues forms are about as easy as it gets so you can just work on harmonic references...

Where I'm going is most don't seem to be able to use standard Relative harmony applications when comping and soloing... at least past the Blue note approach. Relative and Parallel Harmonic relationships are typical door to help musically organize Blue Notes with harmonic references and will help one hear and be able to get out of the vanilla syndrome... and still have functional guidelines from standard musical understandings. It's like Plug and Play toys.

It's another option besides embellishment... Just for the reference... I typically use the term...Vanilla for Ionian and embellishment approach. Nothing wrong or bad.... it's just really limiting and boring and will help one get
out of the Backing track approach to improv. I'm gone most of day but later will post example... more of a playing example of different approaches. Slow with breakdowns

**AllanAllen** · 12-12-2023, 01:28 PM

I'll listen to the tune adn play around later. I spent most of last night getting the Scrapple melody down. Learning by ear, not fast, but I got most of it. I'll post a video of that tonight too.

**AllanAllen** · 12-12-2023, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Reg

OK... take a look at Birk's Works. Old simple Min. blues in Fmin. Any Min. tune really... but 12 bar blues forms are about as easy as it gets so you can just work on harmonic references...

Where I'm going is most don't seem to be able to use standard Relative harmony applications when comping and soloing... at least past the Blue note approach. Relative and Parallel Harmonic relationships are typical door to help musically organize Blue Notes with harmonic references and will help one hear and be able to get out of the vanilla syndrome... and still have functional guidelines from standard musical understandings. It's like Plug and Play toys.

It's another option besides embellishment... Just for the reference... I typically use the term...Vanilla for Ionian and embellishment approach. Nothing wrong or bad.... it's just really limiting and boring and will help one get
out of the Backing track approach to improv. I'm gone most of day but later will post example... more of a playing example of different approaches. Slow with breakdowns

Fun changes on this one.

**AllanAllen** · 12-13-2023, 12:06 AM

Scrapple melody, on day 2.

**pamosmusic** · 12-13-2023, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by AllanAllen

Scrapple melody, on day 2.

Wicked. There are a couple spots in there where you lose the melody a bit … particularly measures 3-4 of each pass through the A section.

Also something that can really really really help with these bebop heads is thinking a lot about the right hand, and trying to use left hand slurs to help, when they’re rhythmically appropriate.

So that something to think about.

**AllanAllen** · 12-13-2023, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by pamosmusic

Wicked. There are a couple spots in there where you lose the melody a bit … particularly measures 3-4 of each pass through the A section.

Also something that can really really really help with these bebop heads is thinking a lot about the right hand, and trying to use left hand slurs to help, when they’re rhythmically appropriate.

So that something to think about.

Thanks, I was having trouble with those bars the recordings are usually Doubled up with instruments and not precise so it’s hard for me to hear and the Dexter Gordon one is embellished so I couldn’t pull the straight melody.

I could look at the real book, or I could not.

Maybe if I keep up with all these clips other people won’t be so nervous about posting themselves.