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Just play the blues on the A's. Its a great easy "in."
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12-04-2023 08:20 PM
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Now that you ask, I don't comp much on it, especially at breakneck tempos. It depends on who's on stage. If I happen to be up there when it gets called, I might sit out, but other times I'll lightly, almost acoustically, play the changes sparsely to get into the groove and then try my hand at taking a solo.
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
"Cotton Tail" got called at every session when there was this one tenor player coming around, and sometimes them and a pro trumpeter would really get into it. They once asked me to sit in on a gig, and "Cotton Tail" was on the set list. I haven't actually learned the head to either that or to "Oleo."
Listening to pro players or iconic recordings is instructive, if not daunting, but these tunes work for fun at a jam session, too. Rhythm changes, recently a pianist at one venue has been calling Monk's "Rhythm-a-ning." He started off playing it slowly, gradually upping the tempo each week. I think that's one important aspect of jam sessions, it can be like a workshop as much as it can be a performance. It might depend on the expectations of each venue. At some venues holding jam sessions here, the participants can be the audience for one another; other times it has a more spectator-performer vibe.
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I get along pretty well with T Bone Walker / Charlie Christian licks. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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I flap my fingers around and no one’s really noticed yet.
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Interesting ideas....
I guess I just didn't know how creative players have / had gotten w/ that tune....
Good going !
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Yea Allan... that's another reason why I always push... get your chops together.
With Oleo... you comp rhythmically with and around the melody. The tune is up... so probably for most just playing the head is difficult... at least with some life etc.
That being said...It's not that difficult... really. Try and play the melody on top of the changes. You'll need to make choices as to what are the target or most important notes of melody. And add a few changes to make the melody reflect how you want the arrangement to work... You can also play support notes for targets, instead of actual melody.
Example I like to make Bb6... a Bb6/9 and the G-7 a G7b13.... the C-7 a Gb13 then F7#9 (on I VI II V)
Here's some simple voicings...
6 X 5 5 6 X
3 X 3 4 4 X
2 X 2 3 4 X
X 9 9 9 9 11 slide into X 8 8 8 8 10
X 11 12 12 11 X
X 10 9 10 11 X
8 X 8 8 8 X
X 7 X 7 9 X slide into X 8 X 8 10 X
What I'm doing would be.... fuller and longer lasting chords on bars 1 and 2. Then shorter and more accented 2nd version on bars 3 and 4.
I'm setting up a rhythmic pattern that reflects the melody and what harmony I want to imply.... the notes beyond the basic 7th chords.
If you want I'll post a playing example.... but I don't really play in slow motion even when I don't play much.
But maybe it will help.
The point is..... there are standard comping patterns or Templates that have comping patterns in place. You can adjust the changes and the accents or rhythms to fit the tune or arrangement of the tune... in the moment etc. Depending on who's playing or where your playing etc...
Again the reason most can't do this in real time.... is just not having the chops. And I'm just average pro.
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Thanks Reg, I'll work with this tonight and report back.
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hey Allan... I'm gone most of the day... but will check back in later tonight and make vid. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Just to help... you can just bop or swing through the 1st 6 bars of head... you just need to wait for rhythmic attack or accents on bar 7 until the + of beats 2 and 3...
And then accent the 8ths on beat 3 and 4 of bar 8 of 1st ending ....and 8ths of beats 1 and 2 of 2nd ending to set up bridge.
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Just realized the melody also starts on 2 and not 1. That's going to improve things greatly.
Listening to the bags groove one real loud I notice the bass hits first and is walking strong the whole tune. Which got me thinking, if the bass is walking through it, the stuff I'm trying should fit in.
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Hey Allan...
Here's quick sample of how I might comp for Oleo. I just made recording, it's rough. But may give you some ideas
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Thanks Reg, this is very helpful
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Tried some of your ideas mixed with mine. A day with the metronome and I should be getting close.
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yea man. Good and consistent feel. I could hear where you were going. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Now make another version.... make it different, if you need some ideas how to create a different version... let me know.
Also maybe also try and comp for another bop tune, maybe Scrapple, it's fairly easy. See what you play, what your looking for is new options that you might have picked up from your Oleo take.
I could also make record a quick take...?
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I played along with scrapple a little, trying to copy the piano from a Dexter Gordan version. The style of comping in that was similar to your video. When I move away from charleston or quarter note stuff I was getting lost trying to figure out how to fit things in.
I only spent about 15 minutes on it, then I switched to learning the Oleo melody for a more rounded view of that tune.
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I don’t have anything remotely close to Reg’s chord chops, so feel free to take this as a function of my limitations, but I opt for super small voicings on busy chord changes (and all other chord changes too). That can be a fun thing to play with. Rootless shells plus a tension note.
Also — tangentially related — if the Charleston rhythm is getting old, I have a good time transcribing big band backgrounds for rhythms. I can’t remember but I think I stole that idea from Jeff a while back. (For what it’s worth, a surprising percentage of big band hits ARE the Charleston rhythm, just displaced into different parts of the measure.)
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On the bridge Reg slides E6 into F6 over the F7 and I immediately heard swing band in my head. There's so much to hear and learn, I wish I had more time to get it all in.
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Yea Allan... OK. What do you have for rhythmic styles as a guide.
Where I'm going is... I'll keep posing on comping skills... if you want. But it does take time...
It's not really about how many notes or what chords one plays... it about implying the style and feel.
you sound like a low string up style of player. Which is where one should start. But eventually you can choose what strings or notes of the chord or voicing you hear.
Peters points about small voicings or 2 and 3 note voicings are cool... but they are affects. Used to expand or change up what your playing. Comping is a skill you need LOL.
This is your thread... but if you want I'll stay on it and keep posting examples and help your playing, hopefully others also... I'll put in some time and help... Like I said... smaller sections of tunes lead to better skill levels.
We have two tunes to pull from Oleo and scrapple.
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Rhythmic style, so far it's been the Mickey Baker 4 to a bar style. I'll split that sometimes and hold chords instead of chonking all the time. I know the melody should be a guide, but it's a weakpoint for me. Let me get a clip of scrapple up before you give me any more advice. Originally Posted by Reg
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here you go Reg, it really helped to hum the melody to get the hits. Thoughts?
https://youtu.be/iPaNYD9MNKo?si=Fr_GffLxsXkAEiHj
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I think maybe this seems like a lot of notes for some situations.
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Yeah watching it again I keep the right hand going a lot.
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General rule of thumb, I think … big chords, play less. Playing more, use smaller chords.
Not a hard rule or anything, but it’ll take more skill to stay out of the way with big chords and active rhythms.
A buddy of mine had a lesson w Mike Moreno and was playing big chords and whatnot and Mike stopped him and held up his guitar and said “This is not a piano.”
His thing was sharp rhythms, small voicings, counter melody on top.
It’s a flavor just like anything else, but it’s a good play to build from.
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For a counterpoint to that … Gilad does his “big chord” thing and Jordan Klemons keeps talking about “piano envy” (I cringe every time he says it, but alright.)
Jordans is interesting because it’s using super simple structures and combining them. Anyway. Lots of ways to skin a cat.
EDIT: and there’s this dude for the vibe you’re into. He posts on the forum from time to time.
//www.campusfive.com/swingguitarblog
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I’m purposely trying to copy piano comping. I’m not sure how much weight to give the players advice you mention. I’ve never listened to them play.
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I guess that’s fair enough. Moreno’s point I think was that if someone hires a guitarist it’s usually not because piano was unavailable. It’s because they want guitar. But still … that’s just an opinion. As for their styles …
Gilad and Moreno are super modern. Jordan not so much … check him out.
NYC Jazz Guitar Masterclasses
Jonathan Stout is a wonderful pre-bop guitarist. So that’s right up your alley.
note: Jordan is a good friend, so maybe I’m biased. But he’s the real deal and has a lot of great stuff to check out. Big on the whole Bill Evans for guitar thing.
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