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Reading
and the lead sheet for Iris shows Ab(nat5 #5) but the melody has d and e (b5 and #5). My ear is not sharp enough to casually hear if HH is also playing eb against this, but seems odd - should it not be Ab (b5 #5)?Last edited by BWV; 08-07-2020 at 05:00 PM.
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08-01-2020 09:18 PM
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Shorter’s copyright lead sheets often differ from what the group actually played on the day. Doesn’t the book also include a ‘corrected’ lead sheet (with Ab b5 #5) which reflects the recorded version?
I haven’t got the book available at the moment but that’s what I remember seeing. I learned the tune from that ‘corrected’ sheet a few weeks ago.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Ok see what you mean, I’ve found the book now.
In fact I play that chord as Ab b5 #5 because as you say, that’s what the melody describes. (I probably misread the leadsheet that way too).
It is a bit odd, when I get time I’ll listen to the recording more closely.
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I guess an Ab M7 (#5 b5) would be normally written as Ab M7 #5 #11
FWIW,, the Ab(nat5 #5) can be voiced as Emin/maj7 / Ab and
Ab(b5 nat5) can be Cmadd9/ Ab and you can voiceless nicely between the two
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Just listened to the track at half speed, I think he is right, what Hancock plays during the theme sounds more like Ab nat 5 #5 to me.
I don’t hear the b5 in the piano chord, it is a closer clash than that, i.e. just a semitone. Of course by the time Hancock hits those upper harmonies (he kind of staggers the chord), the melody is sitting entirely on the #5 so it all works.
Fortunately on the guitar either chord is possible, by using the open top E string to get the #5.
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I hate to be pedestrian but the Real Book just says AbM7#5, which I was playing as 4x555x. The D, G and E melody notes fit fine with that. Might be different on a piano, of course.
(I always thought bar 14 was more obscure)Last edited by ragman1; 08-02-2020 at 12:37 PM.
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Christian, by the looks of it, plays 435x5x.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
The book in question is very thorough, he analyses what they actually played in some detail.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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To play the melody, the most ready solution is 4x553 followed by the 1st string g then e
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Graham -
Shorter’s copyright lead sheets often differ from what the group actually played on the day
I don't think it's worth getting hung up on one chord, to be honest. Play whatever sounds right/good.
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Originally Posted by BWV
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I play 4 x 3 0 5 x there
Which isn't vanilla. But I just liked the sound of that chord.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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BMV -
The problem with Db-(b6), if it's taken as AM7/Db, is that 5x665x with the bass swapped to Db just gives a vanilla Dbm chord. Doesn't do much, but the melody over it is Ab Gb Eb Db.
I think I ended up playing it as x47644, or something like that. Can't remember now.
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I play it as x42224 to include the melody note on top. I tend to hear it as a Dbmin b6 chord in the context of the tune at that point.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
In seriousness, that chord is conceptualised as a Cadd4 over an Ab bass. So there's a few inversions of C E F G that you can make over the Ab bass. It sounded kind of bitter with that semitone clash, a little bit of 'Ugly Beauty' that I admire in players when used in the right way. Stops it from sounding like lounge music, which is a danger with solo jazz guitar. Everything becomes too syrupy.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by BWV
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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The solution I came up for 14 is a db augmented triad x432, which creates a M7#5 sound with the held over Ab from the last upbeat of the prev measure. Voiceleads nicely from x4545x in 13 then resolving to x433xx in 15
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Yes the book says Db13sus at that point in Wayne’s solo.
I tend to see these chords as a typical Herbie Hancock move, i.e. the chords during the theme are Db7(#11) to Amaj/Db. If you think of it as some sort of Dbsus followed by Amaj triad over Db, it is a lot like those chords he does at the end of Dolphin Dance, i.e. the upper notes just move down a whole tone while the pedal bass note is unchanged.
Naming these chords can can be a bit tricky as it doesn’t necessarily capture the precise piano voicings very well, and I think they are quite important.
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