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  1. #101

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

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    Thinking about how some new videos get so much views. It's not because there are so many people watching, it's probably a few that watch them 100 times.
    Something wrong about the.. the math.
    So.
    When music "business" was in its infancy (the MTV times), all anybody could do was to keep it running and when your fav came on, you just absorb it for 5 minutes. And buy the CD. Go buy a ticket. Now, you just click and click.
    That means, the music business (mostly ads) has not yet fully adjusted to the fans-math.

    The solution now.. hm. The revelation and revolution for music "business" would be accepting that the ads for classical, jazz and all those things are worth more. Because the fans there have way more money. And the artists that produce that stuff should get paid more. When the math gets right, we're back in business! The real musicians I mean.


    Just a desperate thought

  4. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu
    There are some fresh fun things on KEXP.
    KEXP
    - YouTube


    As always, depends on taste.. but I've found a few gems in those lives.
    This is very interesting.

  5. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Is that really true? I doubt anyone here wants be a famous pop star.

    What you say would have more truth if applied to, say, Pat Metheny or someone.
    If playing jazz standards in a bebop fashion would make one a famous pop star, I believe most here would want to be that pop star. (as in what makes one a pop star isn't the music they make but how audiences react to said music). E.g. back in his day the Nat King Cole trio was very popular. That was because listeners had more discerning taste and not that Nat and this trio dumped down the music.

    Anyhow, I was trying to imply most artist \ musicians like money and how in a capitalistic society that improves one life, just as much as anyone else. AND that doesn't make them 'sell-outs'.

  6. #105
    Okay everyone tell me how GREAT music has evolved into. And please use some examples to prove your point. But audio only please!

  7. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I’m certainly not a Mayer fan - but to be fair some of his acoustic stuff is legit hard to play. had to teach it.
    Even some of his electric stuff is challenging, he's gotten better, surrounding himself with good players and learning from the veterans, plus he's a working musician and a lot stronger than a hobbyist/partimer like me.

    The thing that kills me is that everything he does, I've heard. I thrive on innovation and if it sounds like old hat I lose interest really quick.

    Wish I could sing like him though.

  8. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Who ever gave a shit about Qualified Musicians other than other Qualified Musicians?
    When the Americans captured Cherbourg in 1944 and demanded its surrender, the German commander Von Schlieben asked of the American BGen Canham, "What are your credentials?", Canham pointed to his tired, filthy troops and said, "These are my credentials."

    In much the same way, credentials as a musician rely on your troops. Do you get asses moving? Feet tapping? Minds tweaked by a fresh approach?

    This is not a ranking contest, music. It is entertainment. Sometimes I like my entertainment highbrow, sometimes I like it cheap and easy, but if it fits the mood of the moment and moves me in the process, I'm cool. It's music.

  9. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu

    So funny
    It's all true. There were like 3 jobs for dancing guitar players in my time. Work for Prince, the Time or the R&B underground. I took my chances on the underground. After about 2 months, 9 hours a night, 6 nights a week, I got good. After 6 months, ka boom. It was over. Nobody wants me in California or Japan.
    I play with my computer in Las Vegas now. Life could be worse.

  10. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    But when musicians such as Vinnie Caliuta, John McGlaughlin, and other accomplished musicians sound the alarm will YOU LISTEN THEN!
    Who is that? I've heard of Vinnie Colaiuta and John McLaughlin.

    Also, CitizenK is right. The means for production are within everyone's grasp. Of course that will change the product.

    BTW did you notice that after the advent of the guitar, nobody has written a half-decent Lute suite anymore? Bloody modern crap.

  11. #110

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    It is the phenomenon of seven producers in different time zones who collectively compose a recording at the behest of a committee at the media corporation, which needs a track to promote a film and simultaneously boost the flagging career of a once-promising singer.

    Also, Auto-Tune.

  12. #111

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    "Anyhow, I was trying to imply most artist \ musicians like money and how in a capitalistic society that improves one life, just as much as anyone else. AND that doesn't make them 'sell-outs'." jameslovestal

    Hi, J,
    In philosophy, the above statement is what is called a "non-sequitur"---"
    a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.."

    So, if a classically trained, symphonic violinist who has spent over twenty years of his/her life polishing and refining their Art chooses, for economic reasons, a full-time job with an accordian player in a neighborhood Italian restaurant . . . they have NOT sold out? Could you please explain?
    Good playing . . . Marinero

  13. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    "Anyhow, I was trying to imply most artist \ musicians like money and how in a capitalistic society that improves one life, just as much as anyone else. AND that doesn't make them 'sell-outs'." jameslovestal

    Hi, J,
    In philosophy, the above statement is what is called a "non-sequitur"---"
    a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.."

    So, if a classically trained, symphonic violinist who has spent over twenty years of his/her life polishing and refining their Art chooses, for economic reasons, a full-time job with an accordian player in a neighborhood Italian restaurant . . . they have NOT sold out? Could you please explain?
    Good playing . . . Marinero

    Easy .. He has realized that he pursued a vanity project with no real life benefit to him and now is trying to make the best of it in other to not waste 20 more futile years


    Or a less harsh version: Pizza place feeds his family better than classical music and in the end your kids life quality is what matters .. Tho some would argue that it is more important that he continues his exploration of classical music and should let those kids starve

    Or maybe he has just found out that working at a pizza place is fun, relaxing and preferable to the stiff competition, network and back stab enviroment of high brow classical music with too many people trying to fill too few chairs

  14. #113

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    In a capitalistic society, money is the end-all, be-all. Making money is the highest calling. Art, whether music, painting, or any other, is only a method for making money. We may pretend otherwise, but it's only pretending. If writing beautiful and interesting music is so easy, get off your ass and do it. The equipment no longer is so expensive that only big businesses can afford it, anyone with a personal computer and some relatively cheap software can do it. So stop complaining and do it. Put your best work out there and reap the profits.

  15. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    Put your best work out there and reap the profits.

    No no no ... I could in a non-capitalist world, but men in suits are blocking me as their money is used to dumb/mumb the masses.

  16. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Easy .. He has realized that he pursued a vanity project with no real life benefit to him and now is trying to make the best of it in other to not waste 20 more futile years


    Or a less harsh version: Pizza place feeds his family better than classical music and in the end your kids life quality is what matters .. Tho some would argue that it is more important that he continues his exploration of classical music and should let those kids starve

    Or maybe he has just found out that working at a pizza place is fun, relaxing and preferable to the stiff competition, network and back stab enviroment of high brow classical music with too many people trying to fill too few chairs
    Thanks for saving me the time to reply. All I can add is that I was told this violin player is now playing songs that require improvisation instead of just reading notes from a sheet of paper. Therefore he has advanced his artistic skills and he is playing HIS music instead of the music of others.

    Good playing. James

  17. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Or maybe he has just found out that working at a pizza place is fun, relaxing and preferable to the stiff competition, network and back stab enviroment of high brow classical music with too many people trying to fill too few chairs
    And who's to say he's not playing beautiful classical violin at home, on his own time?

  18. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
    When the Americans captured Cherbourg in 1944 and demanded its surrender, the German commander Von Schlieben asked of the American BGen Canham, "What are your credentials?", Canham pointed to his tired, filthy troops and said, "These are my credentials."

    In much the same way, credentials as a musician rely on your troops. Do you get asses moving? Feet tapping? Minds tweaked by a fresh approach?

    This is not a ranking contest, music. It is entertainment. Sometimes I like my entertainment highbrow, sometimes I like it cheap and easy, but if it fits the mood of the moment and moves me in the process, I'm cool. It's music.
    i get asses tweaked, feet moving and minds tapping. Still working on it.

  19. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    In a capitalistic society, money is the end-all, be-all. Making money is the highest calling. Art, whether music, painting, or any other, is only a method for making money. We may pretend otherwise, but it's only pretending. If writing beautiful and interesting music is so easy, get off your ass and do it. The equipment no longer is so expensive that only big businesses can afford it, anyone with a personal computer and some relatively cheap software can do it. So stop complaining and do it. Put your best work out there and reap the profits.
    in capitalism we have this thing called supply and demand...

  20. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    in capitalism we have this thing called supply and demand...
    Aye, there's the rub.

  21. #120
    A bit late to the party here, but I actually think that amongst my peers (I'm in my 20s) there's quite a lot of appetite for more "harmonically complex" music. It just doesn't and cannot sound like what people in older generations may like. I think the main reason it's not popular is as those have already stated...it doesn't sell or it would sell but the labels/radios have already decided it won't and so don't play it. Btw I am no fan of today's popular music.

    But that doesn't mean there isn't newer music being made that is actually moving and complex. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't there. The music will also be influenced by whatever is popular today, being that today's pop music (for me hip hop in particular) is essentially the repertoire of standards for my generation.

  22. #121

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    Willie is still alive and kicking. Old yes, but not dead, and still playing.
    And don't forget, the older generation was saying pretty much the same thing as bebop came on the scene, scorned as "Chinese music" when Chinese was a serious insult. It still is to some people. Then rock 'n roll killed all real music in the early '50s. And the British invasion of the '60s really killed music. I don't like most music from after the '40s that much, but that's just my preference, and doesn't mean that newer music is no good, just that I'm a stick-in-the-mud stuck in the distant past. I acknowledge that and don't really give a flying f&%k what others prefer. Just because I don't know of any good modern music doesn't mean that there is none, just that there is none that I've heard. My playlists are pretty limited, though.

  23. #122
    Again with ignorance? I stated Sting and the Police, which included Andy Summers. The fact that you all are unable to discern between Entertainment and Music Composition tells one all of the information one needs to know.

    Please post a newer music clip of a worthy composition, as Ive kept asking for.
    Or at least quit showing your ignorance of both the English language as well as music, by spouting negative comments as an answer.

    Thanks!

  24. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Again with ignorance? I stated Sting and the Police, which included Andy Summers. The fact that you all are unable to discern between Entertainment and Music Composition tells one all of the information one needs to know.

    Please post a newer music clip of a worthy composition, as Ive kept asking for.
    Or at least quit showing your ignorance of both the English language as well as music, by spouting negative comments as an answer.

    Thanks!
    Why should anyone post a newer music clip since you have already made up your mind and you're very, very stubborn. Can't you at least admit that? You made your POV clear. Most disagree. I guess that makes all of us idiots, or amateurs or god knows what.

    You started this thread as a rant to get something off your chest. Most here indulged you in this regard. But trying to beat us into submission until we agree with you, is taking it too far.


  25. #124
    There have been no posts of any note worthy music in this entire thread. And if you think the ones are great compositions. You may want question what actual great harmony and composition looks like. From Bach to the Beatles, Ellington to Brian Wilson, Ray Charles to Willie Nelson, Dizzy Gillespie to Sting.

  26. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    There have been no posts of any note worthy music in this entire thread. And if you think the ones are great compositions. You may want question what actual great harmony and composition looks like. From Bach to the Beatles, Ellington to Brian Wilson, Ray Charles to Willie Nelson, Dizzy Gillespie to Sting.
    this is some thread...its in all 12 keys both major AND minor...with lots of altered chords...I think Cage & Glass would love it in here

    jads..relax man..I can feel your BP rise as you respond...look...as simple as I can say it..and Im sure many on here will agree...here is the crux of the situation..and its a cliche ...

    A jazz guitarist plays a thousand chords..for three people...

    a rock guitarist plays three chords for a thousand people..

    now you may not like the reality of the business end of music..or the people/society that supports it...but there it is...the jazz guitarist goes home on public transportation..the rock guitarist has a 30 ft limo and 10 groupies..

    frank zappa once said...jazz isnt dead..it just smells funny...and zappa was a prime example of NOT being MSM and being successful and origional

  27. #126

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    Posting any music would be an exercise in futility, because jads has obviously made up his mind, and would not be swayed by anything, no matter how good it might be. The entire thread is an exercise in futility. I give up.

  28. #127
    And once again not one of you who've posted in this thread can come up with ANY SONG of worth! The ignorance is astounding around here!

    Frank Zappa used Tommy Tedesco to play his written guiar parts he was unable to. But thats not here nor there. Its the actual songs themselves folks.
    Even Pat Metheny,John Scofield,etc have written great songs. But again that was then when music was still a viable endevour.

  29. #128

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    Yeah I'm pretty ignorant it's true.

  30. #129

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    <<<<< blindly ignorant and stupid here

  31. #130

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    Dumbfounded as usual for me.

  32. #131

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    One last try jads..
    This is a period of deconstruction. Remixing. Construction can only come in the form of stage craft.

  33. #132
    And I thought it was only the Wanabe Rock Guitarists that wore Domino Delivery Hats?

  34. #133

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    ^^^
    You lost me.

  35. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    And I thought it was only the Wanabe Rock Guitarists that wore Domino Delivery Hats?
    that was Buckethead I think..and it was a KFC 12 piece bucket !!!!

    and he is a good musician BTW...

  36. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    And once again not one of you who've posted in this thread can come up with ANY SONG of worth! The ignorance is astounding around here!

    Frank Zappa used Tommy Tedesco to play his written guiar parts he was unable to. But thats not here nor there. Its the actual songs themselves folks.
    Even Pat Metheny,John Scofield,etc have written great songs. But again that was then when music was still a viable endevour.
    well...there you go again...

    Zappa also used Steve Vai..and steve still tours and writes his own music as does Sco and Metheny...and that is NOW as well as then....well virus timeout of course

    I really feel your behind the times and not keeping up with many of the new and origional players ..and no Im not going to name origional tunes..not for lack of them..
    but you should do some homework and find them your self if its that important to you...they ARE out there

  37. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    i get asses tweaked, feet moving and minds tapping. Still working on it.
    Then you're doing something right, brotha, keep on with it.

  38. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    And once again not one of you who've posted in this thread can come up with ANY SONG of worth! The ignorance is astounding around here!

    Frank Zappa used Tommy Tedesco to play his written guiar parts he was unable to. But thats not here nor there. Its the actual songs themselves folks.
    Even Pat Metheny,John Scofield,etc have written great songs. But again that was then when music was still a viable endevour.
    At least you can go to bed tonight feeling right tonight.

    As for Frank's playing, this don't look like Tommy:


  39. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    And I thought it was only the Wanabe Rock Guitarists that wore Domino Delivery Hats?
    I'm probably one of the odd balls around here who didn't start in jazz or rock. Or classical. I don't know what people are talking about half the time and I find it all fascinating.
    It's very Zen.

  40. #139
    Try Frank's Lumpy Gravy record for Tommy Tedesco. And try 20 little cigars, as well as Hot Rats Little Umbrellas for a couple of Mr Zappas Jazz excursions.

    Again no one is able to post any song of worth? I keep asking and you all have sorts of anecdotes such as I'm not looking in the right places, as well other such nonsense.
    But nothing worthy in the last 10 to 15 years? Not even one song?
    Steve Vai while a fine musician, is not a Pop Songster. Although to his credit he did arrange David Lee Roth version of Just a Gigalo.

    Come on everyone, can't you just post one song to prove the crabby old man wrong? I double dog dare you!

  41. #140

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    Bluegrass/Americana is too lowbrow for some folks, and certainly isn't pop music, but I'll take my quality art where I can get it. I've gigged this tune.


  42. #141
    Thanks for posting the video. Very nice playing by the musicians as well as newer production skills. I've found Wynonna Judd and Vince Gill have put out some very nice Pop records based on Bluegrass as well as many other genres.
    They seem to understand the value of songwriters,musicians, as well as production,.

    Mary Chapin Carpenter and Allison Krause also come to mind.

  43. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Try Frank's Lumpy Gravy record for Tommy Tedesco. And try 20 little cigars, as well as Hot Rats Little Umbrellas for a couple of Mr Zappas Jazz excursions.
    That rather ignores my point, which is that Frank was a player in his own right and didn't need Tommy to throw down on his own, live, improvisational, with no net.

    As for offering up some music which you approve, I really don't give a shit what you like or dislike; and I'm not so stupid as to argue about matters of personal taste. De gustibum non disputandum and all that jazz.

    You may be a brilliant musician, or not, I don't know, but seriously -- this idea that you are the arbiter of what is and is not good music is laughable.

    So you have an opinion. That's nice. Get over yourself.

  44. #143

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  45. #144
    So Frank obviously hired musicians and guitarists to play parts with him or couldn't actually play himself. No one said he wasnt any good!

    As far as my opinion, it really doesn't matter. And if you read my posts I've already said that's not the intent in this thread.
    Rather that music has been dumbed down by people who either aren't musicians or worse, musicians who don't care. History always has a way of sorting whats both good and bad.

    I'm pointing out since the advent of the IPhone or digital technology. It has become a whole new game and musicians and pros need not apply.


    P.S. Cello Green is an excellent singer, and that is a fun Motownish Pop Song!

  46. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazznylon

    Geez, J,
    He must have been up all night writing those lyrics, huh? Good playing . . . Marinero

  47. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Come on everyone, can't you just post one song to prove the crabby old man wrong? I double dog dare you!
    I should change my handle to DoubleDog.

    Our Love - YouTube

  48. #147

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    I think it would be fair to say that I am ,also, locked in the 60's and 70's in "pop" music/Bossa/Jazz and in the 19th Century/Early 20th Century Classical Romantic guitar tradition. I find it difficult to relate to much newer music since I find they lack interesting melodies and use pedestrian lyrics. And, as I have said previously, there is a wealth of music to study/play that I could never scratch the surface in my lifetime. So, when when we talk about musical tastes, we must accept they are different for everyone unless you spend your life running with the Herd. So, here's two pop tunes from my period that have a good melody, sensitive lyrics and is, in my opinion, absent from the lionshare of contemporary pop music today. What do you think? I hope you enjoy!




  49. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb300
    I should change my handle to DoubleDog.

    Our Love - YouTube
    Hi, T,
    Nice. Heavy Gospel/R&B roots. Good playing . . . Marinero

  50. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, T,
    Nice. Heavy Gospel/R&B roots. Good playing . . . Marinero
    ???

    ... that's not me, it's Gregory Porter.

    I just said that because if OP doesn't appreciate it as a well written tune then he's just in this for the attention.

  51. #150
    Marinero thanks for the posts! This is exactly what's is missing in newer music SOUL! It doesn't matter the genre either from Merle Haggard to John Coltrane .
    There is no SOUL in the newer music!

    I really think the more technology evolved and was used in music the less FEEL or human emotion it had. From click tracks to plug ins. Even over dubbing can make the performance a bit less emotional.
    Music needs the synergy of the people playing it in real time to really groove.
    I know the Beatles, Sting,Jimi Hendrix, etc also utilized the studio to great effect as well!
    But really it comes down to the original performance that makes it or breaks it.

    I really feel sorry for the newer generation not being able to tell or feel the difference. They seem to hear music in 2 dimensions as opposed to 3 unfortunately !