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  1. #151

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    I consider "Alter Ego" (1995) by pianist James Williams a recent standard. It's been covered by such artists as Roy Hargrove, Kevin Eubanks, Kenny Barron, Donald Byrd, Louis Hayes, Buster Williams, and many others. Also, "Got A Match" (1996) by Chick Corea comes to mind as another "recent standard" .
    Attached Images Attached Images Why no new standards?-alter-ego-jpg 
    Last edited by rintincop; 11-10-2019 at 07:32 PM.


    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
  3. #152

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    Both of these tunes are 10-12 years older than you list, so over 33+ years old. I suppose that is recent in the big picture.

  4. #153

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    Prefab Sprout is one of my favorite cult fan bands. And leader Paddy MacAloon is on record as having been heavily influenced by George Gershwin. One that would work, of many by this band is “Cruel” It’s from the’80s, but written and arranged in the old manner

  5. #154

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    Also this one, “Horsin’ Around” - has a bit of a Bacharach feel

  6. #155

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    Hot dog, jumping frog, Albuquerque.

  7. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    Hot dog, jumping frog, Albuquerque.
    I remember that. From Langley Park To Memphis.

  8. #157

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    Tal 175- Actually a lot of jazz musicians or some at least did do/use Beatles tunes as standards in the 60s! But you're right jazz is an approach to music ?. So in that case why not jazz up popular tunes of today? If I get a band together again that's what we'll do and it'll be if not original definetly different! I bet it might even cross over since it's playing pop tunes. Only problem is some of these songs are very dull harmonically and melodicly speaking.

  9. #158

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    That's because Glenn Campbell was a hell of a good guitar player/musician! He was part of the famous wreaking crew with Tommy Tedesco and Carol Kaye.

  10. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77

    The idea that the boppers didn’t want to play for dancers is bollocks really - the ‘no dancing’ signs were from a change in club licensing.
    ok fair enough .....
    but how do you dance at the fast the tempos ?

  11. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    All pure speculation on my part, but this is how I've always seen our...

    During the GASB era, many many more popular songs inherently had great changes. Around the sixties, changes for popular music became simpler to a large degree. I don't think it's a coincidence that jazzers started playing a higher percentage of their own tunes in later generations.

    Anyway, modern popular songs with really interesting changes which jazzers like) are much more the outliers. Ever some modern songs which have become more "standards" probably have to be more heavily re-harmonized.

    Many people who don't know what jazz is assume that the GASB songs ARE jazz. Fred Astair and co ARE jazz too many, and to be fair, those tunes have much more jazz-like changes compared to pop music of later generations.
    Whatdoes GASB stand for? Pardon my ignorance.

  12. #161

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    Oh heh great American songbook! Ah

  13. #162

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    Great American song book.

  14. #163

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    On James Taylor's new album American Standard:

    James Taylor's 'American Standard' Song by Song << American Songwriter

  15. #164
    I don't see harmonies of modern pop tunes as an obstacle to adaptation to jazz. They can be re-harmonized in the jazz style in ways to still support the melody.
    After all many GASB tunes were re-harmonized by jazz musicians.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 02-11-2020 at 07:02 AM.

  16. #165

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    It's mostly the sucky melodies.

  17. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Yeah, ATTYA is OK. It's better in 3, because there the rhythmic predictability of the melody is less pronounced. Not my favourite standard from a melodic standpoint although jazz musicians like the harmony. Probably not my favourite Kern.

    You know they say familiarity breeds contempt... And while any halfway competent jazz amateur can play ATTYA after a fashion, obviously there's some difference between someone who can do it really fucking well (let alone Parker or someone) and someone who has recently learned the 'right' scales from an Aebersold...

    Of course, the fact is that distinction may be completely lost an audience... (I remember that episode of Friends with Ross's music) but actually I don't think it is. People can tell the difference between something rhythmically engaged and something meandering, for one.

    (Now, go back in time and you'll find basic repeating forms such as Chaconnes that formed the basis of many simpler pieces in the baroque era. Or in the case of Bach, an honest to god masterpiece.)

    But yeah, classical music is obviously good, attracting funding from corporate sources and wealthy patrons for instance... Contemporary concert music, not so much because it sounds very different and hasn't become part of the cultural furniture. Tends to more subsidised by the state...

    The fact that you mention Sonata form suggests you are not massively familiar with trends in New Music - and you yourself are obviously an interested party, a musician? So there you go...

    Yeah, I hear you.

    Division of labour, specialisation of tasks, strict hierarchy allow certain things to be achieved that could not happen with a looser organisation, Mahler symphonies, Wagner operas and so on....

    (We could of course compare to the industrial revolution, which is when these changes happened in music... The orchestra to some extent models the social structures of the time.)

    It's interesting hearing you say this stuff after a weekend of hearing classical music educators complain about how students are taught to always revere the composer, never write or improvise their own music, never develop strong aural skills and essentially train only to interpret the notes on the page...

    And did you know job satisfaction for orchestral professionals is on a par with refuse collectors?

    OTOH today's musicians are increasingly very versatile freelancers. They can play pretty much anything.

    It's also worth pointing out that many of the composers the lay audience may have heard of - Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Schubert etc - were also performers, and many improvisers. Their artistic world did not much resemble that of the present day, which is largely inherited from the 19th century. The division of labour of this kind is more 19th century than it is 17th or 18th. Orchestras were also smaller, the conductor did not exist as a specialised role, and so on...

    But I think bottom line if you are saying - jazz musicians are not trained to be good composers, why would we expect them to be so, I would agree. There are fantastic composers in jazz of course - ranging from Jelly Roll Morton to Maria Schneider... but to expect all jazz improvisors to be good composers of original material is silly... You have to respect the craft of composition and shed the fuck out of it to be good at it.

    But I would also say, the notion that a performer can not also be a strong composer and they have to be two separate things is obviously untrue, and I feel I've shown that here.
    Better in 3? What do you mean trio form? Pardon my ignorance!

  18. #167

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    SWB? Sweet Georgia Brown?

  19. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Fz2016
    Better in 3? What do you mean trio form? Pardon my ignorance!
    I think he meant 3/4 time (or 6/8).

  20. #169
    On that note, I'm working on playing tunes in 3/4 time without making them sound like corny ballroom music. I can't seem to avoid cheese to save my life when playing some of the standards in 3/4 time. Needs work.

  21. #170

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    I write my own standards and have fun to play them

  22. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhythmisking
    Absolutely. The pseudo-historical timeline I laid out wasn't intended to be absolute or even historically accurate, but to describe a general movement through time of the relationship of jazz players and audiences and the often overlooked/underappreciated role of composition.

    There was a time period where jazz was popular, and jazz music was a part of popular music. But my point is that compositions such as the Ellington/Strayhorn tunes; indisputably "jazz songs", were first and foremost beautiful compositions. The compositional intention was primarily to create a beautiful song, not quickly dash off a framework to blow over with melody almost as an afterthought.

    Great iconic jazz musicians from the bop era forward were and are celebrated (and studied) for their improvisations first, and their compositions second -if at all. Certainly exceptions (Ellington) abound; no doubt. But I'm of the opinion that the evolution of jazz as a genre ended up in the weeds (as far as it being popular music) when the importance of song composition fell away under the dazzle and sparkle of expertly executed vertical improvisation.

    I believe a large part of the reason iconic masters such as Parker, Hawkins, Young, etc are perceived as being as great as they are is because their work took place at the overlap of horizontal and vertical improv styles. They grew up and were influenced by players whose improvisations were based on a song's melody and tended to be thematic melody-like lines that moved through changes. As they started formulating their lines referencing the changes more strongly, they still had the foundation of the primacy of a cohesive melodic thread guiding them. As newer, contemporary players study them, they concentrate largely on the chord/scale elements of their playing and also view their own improvisation primarily in terms of scalar relationships to chords, and my assumption is that this is the emphasis of what is generally taught academically in jazz studies: Use the correct patterns over the individual chords as quickly and accurately as possible and bingo, you're playing jazz!

    There's a quote I really like from Herb Alpert in the June issue of Jazz Times. He's talking about his foundation and the selection process for giving out grants. He says "There are two kinds of musicians: first, the guys who play the right notes, who know where they're going and are very precise. You listen to them and you stare out the window because nothing's really happening.Then there are those other guys who are searching for the right notes. The artists we choose are not the beat of the week; they're the ones who took the road less traveled."
    Another couple big examples Thelonious Monk and Charles Mingus!

  23. #172

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    Dizzy Gillespie could be argued as a great composer!