Commit to a song a week. What could a serious student hope to learn?

[pingu]

If you listen to the Ella or the Sarah versions, you will notice the first two bars are 4 beats of IMa7 and 4 beats of IV9#11, then IVMa7, etc. in bar 3.

My take is that the F#13b9 on beat 3 in the chart (and the "hipper" versions) is a tritone sub of C7 heading to the F9#11 in the second bar - BUT, the F9#11 is then replaced by it's tritone sub (B7alt). Then in the 3rd bar you get the FMa7...

I think the Eliane Elias version is a good middle ground for lifting voicings etc.

Cool , thanks for that post that now makes
sense too me ....

I think I'll go with the simpler Sarah/Ella chords for the mo

[wzpgsr]

Well I guess it makes sense to me now, but I’m still unsure of how to play over it. Even chord tones sound off to me.

[johnnyjazz]

Do you know your fingerboard well enough to identify notes all around by name? How are you with chord grids? I won't do TAB, sorry, it's a perspective thing, but it would indeed be fun to do as a lesson in melodic position and chord playing.

I'll think about how I'd do a project thread. It may take time to get through the piece, but I'd like it to be a lesson on chord melody and not just a list of places to plant your fingers. If that's OK.

David

PS. no further lecture on this topic but there's great power in acquiring fluency in standard notation. You can learn it in a month or so and it'd be with you your whole life.

Yea i am ok with chord grids, knowing every note, no, no point in lying. It would be great if you could a project like you said David.

Many thanks John.

[TH]

Well I guess it makes sense to me now, but I’m still unsure of how to play over it. Even chord tones sound off to me.

Listen to the recordings as much as you can and I said this earlier but on this piece especially, know the melody!
This piece is phrased with definite landscapes of hills and valleys, ways to form phrases in a meaningful way. Listen to how the melody breathes. Take this as a "play by ear" exercise if you're up for it, and see if that doesn't change the way you think of the piece.

David

[TH]

Well we've made it to Thursday and I'm curious to know what you guys think. How's it going on this piece. The fourth week piece is always designed to be a challenge, either because it's a new piece you might not know, or because it's unique in some way.

Detour Ahead doesn't have a 32 bar layout like a lot of tin pan alley standards, it has an essential quality I think comes from the ear. By that I mean if you are just running the changes, it may not do much for you.

I thought of Lee Konitz's steps to improvisation when I approached this tune. Melody, and small variations within that structure. I found that this piece for me, lends itself to creating more with less. There's a beauty to the way the changes lead into one another and if I play too much, it crowds a very natural conversational flow. So my week began with playing maybe 2-4 really meaningful notes per change, but searching for ways to play them with meaning (remember the thought of the week?) and in that way, I really got to know the piece better for when the tempo picked up.
There's a danger of what I'll call "flat playing" and by that I mean treating a piece as a flat map to be played through with scales and arpeggios. So that was what I worked on in getting to know Detour Ahead.

How about you guys?

David

[woollyhair]

I need to spend more time over the weekend with this. Finding that I'm getting unsettled whilst comping. Like I want to settle into a rhythm then there is a detour ahead so to speak. Need to listen to the melody more as well.

Really like your suggestion about meaningful notes per bar. Will put some effort into that.

[guido5]

This one was a long stretch for me. I have loved Bill Evans' version for years, but it is not one I had even played with on sax so I really was starting on square one. Definitely hanging around the Konitz level 2...

[Michael Kaye]

I thought of Lee Konitz's steps to improvisation when I approached this tune. Melody, and small variations within that structure. I found that this piece for me, lends itself to creating more with less. There's a beauty to the way the changes lead into one another and if I play too much, it crowds a very natural conversational flow. So my week began with playing maybe 2-4 really meaningful notes per change, but searching for ways to play them with meaning (remember the thought of the week?) and in that way, I really got to know the piece better for when the tempo picked up.
There's a danger of what I'll call "flat playing" and by that I mean treating a piece as a flat map to be played through with scales and arpeggios. So that was what I worked on in getting to know Detour Ahead.

How about you guys?

David

very much the way Bill Evans is playing this tune. he's not even strictly playing the melody as written. it's very free with some alterations.

I've been working on transcribing his version just because I love it. for example, in measure 5 the chords are Cmaj7 to A min, but Evans plays (B7 - C6 - Cmaj7 - Cma6/9 -- Cma9) all leading the Ab13. I mean, it's really just inversions but a cool little twist on the tune.

So I'm approaching it a similar way, working with and around the melody and hopefully not bashing it up too badly. I could spend a year on this tune. love the B section too.

[WILSON 1]

This is a new one for me and I thank you very much for it.

It epitomizes the very reason I got into The Great American Standards in the first place.

Double entendre, conservation of thought, lyrical melody, harmonic discord...everything.

I'll be focusing on it for a time and with Ella and Lady Day as co-inspirations I know I'm on the right track.

Thanks again.

DH

[NSJ]

This is a new one for me and I thank you very much for it.

It epitomizes the very reason I got into The Great American Standards in the first place.

Double entendre, conservation of thought, lyrical melody, harmonic discord...everything.

I'll be focusing on it for a time and with Ella and Lady Day as co-inspirations I know I'm on the right track.

Thanks again.

DH

agreed. New one for me as well. It really does have everything. With my feast or famine work schedule of late, I’ve been swamped for the last two weeks doing nothing but getting home and then sleeping, waking up, working, getting home, sleeping, et Cetera

My assignment ends this weekend so I’m gonna put some time on this tune.

[wzpgsr]

I gotta say that the Bill Evans and Jesse Van Ruller versions of this tune really make the song for me. They take it somewhere else, making it sound very modern yet staying true to the tune.

It’s deceptively simple as well! I’m going to skip a night of improv and nail the melody down. Per David’s post above, this song doesn’t *need* more than a few notes here and there, at least in a basic sense. The reason why I was stumbling over that B7alt was because I was over playing it. I don’t have the chart here, but from memory I think the melody is root to #5. That’s really all you need to embellish, I think.

[wzpgsr]

Listen to the recordings as much as you can and I said this earlier but on this piece especially, know the melody!
This piece is phrased with definite landscapes of hills and valleys, ways to form phrases in a meaningful way. Listen to how the melody breathes. Take this as a "play by ear" exercise if you're up for it, and see if that doesn't change the way you think of the piece.

David

Well, you were so right on the money, David. I listened more intently to the melody tonight than I have yet. Then I worked through it on the guitar. Now it’s in my head, and I’m finding that, like with All of Me, the rhythms of the melody have somehow made their way into my playing, especially when to start and stop lines. And having gotten that far, I can definitely hear my way around the changes without having to think about the chord of the moment. It’s so true what a lot of folks have said over the years: all you need to know is in the tunes. Like, how many times do I come to an altered chord and then just start peppering it with altered tones, altered scales, etc. Playing by ear and intellectualizing less, you start to just hear where the blue notes or altered sounds will work. Then maybe you can start to experiment with the theoretical stuff.

[TH]

I worked through it on the guitar. Now it’s in my head, and I’m finding that, like with All of Me, the rhythms of the melody have somehow made their way into my playing, especially when to start and stop lines. And having gotten that far, I can definitely hear my way around the changes without having to think about the chord of the moment....

Mark this in your journal. This is the day when you saw what soloing is about. Find what's essential, support it with everything else. Hey, have you sung a solo lately? One chorus, when you're fresh and warmed up. Try it!

David

[guido5]

Singing Lester Young (and others) solos was a critical part of the Tristano method. Highly recommended!

[TH]

This month October has a 5th week. I've found a really charming piece that fits the criteria of week 1 (pretty easy) AND week 4 (something new and unexpected)
It's the Great Pumpkin Waltz by Vince Guaraldi. I'm posting this early this week and this is still the Detour Ahead week so yes, I'm still addressing the playing and assimilation of that, but for those of you who want something timely and seasonally appropriate, I couldn't resist this piece.
It's an AABA piece in Eb. We'll encounter a moving bass line, something we call a descending bass line, a line cliche or a descending chord pattern. More on that later but here's the lead sheet and a YouTube recording of this piece.
Have a happy Halloween!
David



This was taken from this address if you want to print it out yourself
http://s3.amazonaws.com/halleonard-c...843057p08z.jpg

And the Vince Guaraldi trio recording:

I'll get into this piece in detail when I formally introduce the form and notes this weekend. Just wanted those ambitious among you to have a tune ready for the apple dunking festivities this weekend!

Have fun
David

[TH]

A preview of what this sounds like on guitar. I found this and it's really nice.

David

[TH]

This week's thought is "Where are you going?"
We tend to think of a solo, a piece, a song as being made of chords that we must properly fill the notes to. Well, maybe not that mechanically, but in the analysis of a tune, and in the way we treat our own real time composition, the changes are the trees, and the journeys we create with the notes are the forest.
On this piece, the entire A section is most simply seen as a descending appointment with the eventual tonic chord, Eb. This kind of descending passage, an extended cascade of chords that lead to one point is not uncommon in jazz. We'll meet it when we do Night and Day, Green Dolphin Street, When Sunny Gets Blue, Like Someone in Love... and lots more. Usually we'll see this in the final approach to the end of the piece, but Great Pumpkin is nice in that we meet it as the A section.
Our B section signals a shift in thinking. Anticipate it and use the transitional D7 at the end of the second ending to create a nice introduction to the key of G if you'd like. It's pretty much a more stable and non moving section of tonality (see how it contrasts with the moving flow of the A section?) and you do meet that IV minor device we met in the second week. Otherwise, you can work within the larger tonality systems of G for the bridge.
Then as a recap, we return to the long arc that brings us to Eb.

As far as how you might memorize, internalize and play over this, just keep in mind that in a long arc like these chords, you breathe differently, try to create ideas by ear; you have that luxury because there are not really any tricks or twists that are designed to cause car crashes or train wrecks.

I hope you have some fun with this. Trick or treat!

David

[wzpgsr]

I’m finding the progression pretty simple to internalize, but I’m having a hard time hearing the “logic”. I get that’s it’s a descending line, but aside from the bass voice, the other chord voices don’t seem to move in a way that sounds pleasing to my ear when I play it. Thing is, on the recording, whatever they’re playing sounds great, so maybe I need to dig in and figuring out some better voicings.

I’ve got the melody down. Took more time than I thought it would because in the interest of time I’m cheating a bit and reading the chart: 3/4 notation is not my strong suit. Turning my attention to improv for the rest of the week.

[wzpgsr]

Beast of a tune for me. I’m going to have to write something out, or sing and transcribe, or both!

[TH]

Beast of a tune for me. I’m going to have to write something out, or sing and transcribe, or both!

Here're a couple of pages that might suggest an approach. I don't know how you're voicing the lines but when you hear the movement and you have an idea of how chords can voice lead, or how constant tones can tie one chord to another, then there's a flow in the chords.
Now there are many ways to play this tune, and arranging is one of the most satisfying parts of playing guitar. Don't think this is the only way, or even a good way to approach this tune, but it's one way to put you on a course. I can add more based on a different string set and set of positions if you'd think it'd be helpful.
Anybody else want to share their approaches?

The first is the root movement with primary root or bass note based on the 6th string



Here I've got chords in block grids. This is so you can visually see the structure as it moves. Chord roots are circled.
I play fingerstyle so if a note is not written, that string is silent. I also show notes written with arrows to other notes. That indicates a suggestion of the melody in the voicing. Oh, that first chord, the C- is based on the 8th fret.
Pardon my crude grids. That's the way I write out chords ha ha

Now please do ask questions about voicings, chords or this tune; that's what the thread is about. I don't know the specifics of what the obstacle in this piece is, but when you get through it, you'll understand the guitar better. I hope this helps.
David

[wzpgsr]

Here're a couple of pages that might suggest an approach. I don't know how you're voicing the lines but when you hear the movement and you have an idea of how chords can voice lead, or how constant tones can tie one chord to another, then there's a flow in the chords.
Now there are many ways to play this tune, and arranging is one of the most satisfying parts of playing guitar. Don't think this is the only way, or even a good way to approach this tune, but it's one way to put you on a course. I can add more based on a different string set and set of positions if you'd think it'd be helpful.
Anybody else want to share their approaches?

The first is the root movement with primary root or bass note based on the 6th string



Here I've got chords in block grids. This is so you can visually see the structure as it moves. Chord roots are circled.
I play fingerstyle so if a note is not written, that string is silent. I also show notes written with arrows to other notes. That indicates a suggestion of the melody in the voicing. Oh, that first chord, the C- is based on the 8th fret.
Pardon my crude grids. That's the way I write out chords ha ha

Now please do ask questions about voicings, chords or this tune; that's what the thread is about. I don't know the specifics of what the obstacle in this piece is, but when you get through it, you'll understand the guitar better. I hope this helps.
David

Thanks David! I appreciate and will digest this.

My obstacle is with improvising. I’ve come to the conclusion that I am thinking too vertically for this tune. I’ve generally been *seeing* the A sections on the chart as two bar chunks. Not sure if this is the right approach. Today I will try a more key-centered horizontal approach, trying to remain aware that not not all notes in a key will fit specifically over each voicing, but that since some of the chords seem to be approach chords this might not matter as much as a I think.

Common tones are probably very useful here, but I’ll need to hunt them out so will probably be playing by ear quite a bit and stumbling a lot. A good example of the common tone is the first three bars: a single G note held over three bars:

Over the Cm it’s the 5.

Over the B-7b5 it’s the b6.

Over the Bb-7 it’s a natural 6 (interesting to note that when added to the Bb-7 chord it really emphasizes the suspended nature of the Bb-7 over the Eb7. In fact to my ear, raising the 5 of Bb-7 to a nat 6 in the standard drop 3 voicing I’m using sounds more like a rootless Eb7sus than Bb-7!)

Anyways, I’m sure they’re common tones that can be applied in interesting ways to help me get into the horizontal approach. If it’s remotely close to being there (unlike yesterday’s terrible session) I’ll try to post some audio later.

[Michael Kaye]

what a sweet little tune. really enjoying playing this one and I'm working on a solo guitar arrangement.

I'm finding all kinds of great stuff soloing thru thus one. mostly taking advantage of Cmin natural, harmonic and melodic and slipping in a little blues over the Bbmin6 until the F/A chord where I like F triad based lines thru some diminished bits and Eb triad leading to Galt on the very interesting turnaround. This one is fun.

It's way easy to "over play" on this sweet little tune. Part of it's charm, for me anyway, is it's simplicity in melody and you can gobble it up by getting to crazy with it. Having a blast on this one. It really helped to really learn and be able to sing the melody on this one to kind of keep me grounded.

[wzpgsr]

what a sweet little tune. really enjoying playing this one and I'm working on a solo guitar arrangement.

I'm finding all kinds of great stuff soloing thru thus one. mostly taking advantage of Cmin natural, harmonic and melodic and slipping in a little blues over the Bbmin6 until the F/A chord where I like F triad based lines thru some diminished bits and Eb triad leading to Galt on the very interesting turnaround. This one is fun.

It's way easy to "over play" on this sweet little tune. Part of it's charm, for me anyway, is it's simplicity in melody and you can gobble it up by getting to crazy with it. Having a blast on this one. It really helped to really learn and be able to sing the melody on this one to kind of keep me grounded.

Please post a couple of choruses. I’d love to hear how you’re approaching this one.

[Michael Kaye]

Ok. I will try and get something up before the end of the weekend.

[TH]

Thanks David! I appreciate and will digest this.

My obstacle is with improvising. I’ve come to the conclusion that I am thinking too vertically for this tune. I’ve generally been *seeing* the A sections on the chart as two bar chunks. Not sure if this is the right approach. Today I will try a more key-centered horizontal approach, trying to remain aware that not not all notes in a key will fit specifically over each voicing, but that since some of the chords seem to be approach chords this might not matter as much as a I think.

Common tones are probably very useful here, but I’ll need to hunt them out so will probably be playing by ear quite a bit and stumbling a lot. A good example of the common tone is the first three bars: a single G note held over three bars:

Over the Cm it’s the 5.

Over the B-7b5 it’s the b6.

Over the Bb-7 it’s a natural 6 (interesting to note that when added to the Bb-7 chord it really emphasizes the suspended nature of the Bb-7 over the Eb7. In fact to my ear, raising the 5 of Bb-7 to a nat 6 in the standard drop 3 voicing I’m using sounds more like a rootless Eb7sus than Bb-7!)

Anyways, I’m sure they’re common tones that can be applied in interesting ways to help me get into the horizontal approach. If it’s remotely close to being there (unlike yesterday’s terrible session) I’ll try to post some audio later.

Did you see my advice about playing more minimally? With each phrase, try to include the descending bass note as a longer note, then "answer" it with a phrase from the chord. Really work to make a dialogue between moving voices and the chord they are shadowed by.
THis is a nice exercise in making each note count. Use less. Say more.

David