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  1. #1

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    Foolishly I have agreed to play this tune on Friday. It's not something I've ever had the stones to play live, so here we go.

    What are your approaches on improvising on the silly A section changes?

    | Ebm7b5 | A7alt | Dbma7 Bm7 | Amaj7 Abmaj7 |
    | Ab- Db7 | Gb7 F7 | Bb7 A7 | Ab7 G7 |
    | F#m7 B7 | Emaj7 | Ebm7 Ab7 | Dbmaj7 |

    Obviously the last four is fine.

    Some people seem to advocate essentially simplifying the changes ...

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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Foolishly I have agreed to play this tune on Friday. It's not something I've ever had the stones to play live, so here we go.

    What are your approaches on improvising on the silly A section changes?

    | Ebm7b5 | A7alt | Dbma7 Bm7 | Amaj7 Abmaj7 |
    | Ab- Db7 | Gb7 F7 | Bb7 A7 | Ab7 G7 |
    | F#m7 B7 | Emaj7 | Ebm7 Ab7 | Dbmaj7 |

    Obviously the last four is fine.

    Some people seem to advocate essentially simplifying the changes ...
    I have messed around with this tune a bit. I just listen to Chet Baker a lot for ideas - he often played it, I think there are some versions on youtube. But I haven't really nailed it yet I must admit.

    I just focus on the chord tones, or as you suggest, sail over them a bit. Chet seems to have a gift for creating melodic ideas on this tune which sound just right.

  4. #3

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  5. #4

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    Dave Cliff did a nice version of this tune with Geoff Simkins, possibly this might be on youtube somewhere.

  6. #5

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    One thing I found out is that there are 2 slightly different versions of this tune. I first knew the one Miles (and later, Chet) did. I think Miles recorded it as 'Conception' and also as 'Deception' (credited to Miles of course! - naughty title.)

    Much later I heard the original tune by George Shearing. I think the changes are largely similar, but Miles greatly simplified the melody in the bridge.

    Have to say I prefer Miles' version, I find Shearing's bridge really 'fussy'. But that may be because I heard Miles and Chet play it first.

    I think Kurt Rosenwinkel plays it the Shearing way, as I recall (I don't have access to youtube at the moment to check this).

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    One thing I found out is that there are 2 slightly different versions of this tune. I first knew the one Miles (and later, Chet) did. I think Miles recorded it as 'Conception' and also as 'Deception' (credited to Miles of course! - naughty title.)

    Much later I heard the original tune by George Shearing. I think the changes are largely similar, but Miles greatly simplified the melody in the bridge.

    Have to say I prefer Miles' version, I find Shearing's bridge really 'fussy'. But that may be because I heard Miles and Chet play it first.

    I think Kurt Rosenwinkel plays it the Shearing way, as I recall (I don't have access to youtube at the moment to check this).
    We'll be playing George's version. Good south london lad. None of your Miles Davis nonsense.

  8. #7

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    Here's George, with a short solo by Chuck Wayne.


  9. #8

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    I respect the fact that I asked for approaches and everyone posted recordings. 'Work it out yourself you lazy grot.'

  10. #9

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    Have you played it yet Christian - I think you said you were playing it today.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Have you played it yet Christian - I think you said you were playing it today.
    Ha no, the sax player bottled out

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Ha no, the sax player bottled out
    Haha saved by the sax!

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by dortmundjazzguitar
    typo: should be Ab7alt, which does help

    i'm not very familiar with this tune. i'd think Bbm over the Db in bar three to make the negoitation of that coltranesque change easier. cycle of fifths for the second row starting on either C7 or Gb7 in bar 6.

    edit: or is the Abj7 in bar 4 actually Ab7/D7? and the second row: | Ab- Db7 | Gbj7 B7 |?
    Haha yes.

    These are the Real Book changes. I'd need to transcribe the changes properly to say for sure regarding your points... It's been a busy week, but I think I'll spend some time getting to know this tune properly in the next few weeks.

  14. #13

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    I hear the Gb7-F7 bar as Gbmaj7-F7#9.

    Then I kind of play the Bb7-A7 Ab7-G7 part as a series of ii-V's ending up on F#m7.

    So Bbm7-Eb7 Abm7-Db7 F#m7-Bb7 Emaj7.
    Last edited by fritz jones; 03-12-2016 at 11:37 PM.

  15. #14

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    Hi, It was a long time since I played this tune, and it does not happen very often, to be honest. But when I was a student at GIT, I remember that we worked on it in Carl Schroeder´s LPW class, and he always had interesting ideas. It´s also easier if you use a key center approach. This is how I would approach the A section,

    Bar 1-2: ii-V in Db minor. Bar 3: Db Major and Bm7 is ii of Amaj7 (bar 4), then back to Db Major (Abmaj7 is V of Db). So first 4 bars would be Db mi, Db maj, A maj, Db maj.

    Bar 5-6: II-V in Gb. You can look at the Gb7 as the II7 in the key of E.

    Bar 7-8: F7-Bb7-A7-Ab7-G7. Think Bb Blues over the whole thing. Use your ears!

    Bar 9-10: II V I IV in E major

    Bar 11-12: Back to Db Major

    I hope that helps.
    Cheers!
     
     
     

  16. #15

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    Only chiming in to make the joke that at least "conception" is still less painful than childbirth.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beeflat
    Hi, It was a long time since I played this tune, and it does not happen very often, to be honest. But when I was a student at GIT, I remember that we worked on it in Carl Schroeder´s LPW class, and he always had interesting ideas. It´s also easier if you use a key center approach. This is how I would approach the A section,

    Bar 1-2: ii-V in Db minor. Bar 3: Db Major and Bm7 is ii of Amaj7 (bar 4), then back to Db Major (Abmaj7 is V of Db). So first 4 bars would be Db mi, Db maj, A maj, Db maj.

    Bar 5-6: II-V in Gb. You can look at the Gb7 as the II7 in the key of E.

    Bar 7-8: F7-Bb7-A7-Ab7-G7. Think Bb Blues over the whole thing. Use your ears!

    Bar 9-10: II V I IV in E major

    Bar 11-12: Back to Db Major

    I hope that helps.
    Cheers!
    That's pretty much how I approach it. I also tend to highlight the common tones between Dbmaj7 and Amaj7 (Ab/G# and Db/C#).

  18. #17

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    I know it's a super old thread but was revisiting the tune after having not played it for a while, mapping out some structure to it.

    So if helpful to anybody, or worthy of discussion:

    Real book changes:

    |:Ebm7b5 Ab7alt Dbmaj7 Bm7 Amaj7 Ab(maj)7
    Abm7 Db7 Gb7 F7 Bb7 A7 Ab7 G7
    F#m7 B7 Emaj7 Amaj7 Ebm7 Ab7 Dbmaj7 :|
    F#m7 B7alt Emaj7 G#m7 C#7
    Gm7 C7 F#m7 B7 Em7 A7


    Bare bones stripped down harmony as I hear it, as simple as possible:
    |:Ebm7b5 Ab7alt Db (Dbm blues) (Dbm blues) Ab7
    Db7 F7 Bb7 C#7alt
    F#m7 B7 Emaj7 Ab7 Dbmaj7 :|
    F#m7 B7alt Emaj7 C#7
    C7 B7 Em7 A7


    Practical set of changes I might like to have in front of my eyes as I practice soloing on the tune, below.
    Grey changes are the ones of less significance.
    Bb7 to A7 in bar 7 can be thought of as Bb7 to Bbm6 (Bb melodic minor), as A7#5 and Bbminmaj7 are so similar. I find this an easier change to, um, 'conceive'

    |:Ebm7b5 D9 Dbmaj7 E7 Amaj7 Ab7
    Db7 Gb7 F7 Bb7 Bbm6
    Ab7 G9
    F#m7 B7 Emaj7 Amaj7 Ebm7 Ab7 Dbmaj7 :|
    F#m7 F9 Emaj7 G#m7 C#7
    Gm7 C7 F#m7 B7 Em7 A9#11
    Last edited by JakeAcci; 02-28-2020 at 03:49 PM. Reason: It was pointed out to me that what I referred to as measure 6 is actually, in fact, believe it or not, measure 7. And for that, dear reader, I do apologize.

  19. #18

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    So the Ebm7b5 measure is bar zero?

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    So the Ebm7b5 measure is bar zero?
    Taking note of the things that matter!

  21. #20

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    I think that gig's over and done... no one's asked him how it went :-)

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    I think that gig's over and done... no one's asked him how it went :-)
    See above.

    I still can't friggin play it.