Source with harmonic analyses of jazz standards?

[57classic]

Is there a source (a book or a site) for the harmonic analyses of jazz standards?

So that one can look up for example Nardis and immediately find out the logic behind the structure?

[grahambop]

Jazzstandards.com has some information like that on some tunes, though not all. (It doesn't have an analysis for Nardis).

[57classic]

Thanks, graham bop, I know...
But I really don't understand the lack of reactions... I must be overlooking something...

[grahambop]

This guy has written a dissertation about it - looks like heavy going though!

http://mark.granroth-wilding.co.uk/f...ssertation.pdf

[targuit]

Graham - I just perused pretty thoroughly that dissertation. Here is the problem in my opinion. He adopts a notation system that makes his commentary look more like calculus than music.

If the commentary were accompanied by musical examples that you could click and hear immediately, it would be far easier. Unfortunately, that is not the case. This harkens back to my oft contested premise that the ear trumps theory by a mile. This dissertation is written is the calculus of theory and immeasurably more complicated than it would be if the author could have used musical examples, either as notation or in today's multi-media world with click on actual musical examples.

You chided me once or twice for getting cranky about excessive mental masturbation about theory as a substitute for learning to hear the theory in the flesh of the music. Which would you rather do? Make love to a real lovely woman or an inert plastic robot? You know what my answer would be.

Btw, there are much more accessible jazz theory pdfs available on line that provide much the same info in a more palatable language - minus the calculus notation.

[grahambop]

Graham - I just perused pretty thoroughly that dissertation. Here is the problem in my opinion. He adopts a notation system that makes his commentary look more like calculus than music.

If the commentary were accompanied by musical examples that you could click and hear immediately, it would be far easier. Unfortunately, that is not the case. This harkens back to my oft contested premise that the ear trumps theory by a mile. This dissertation is written is the calculus of theory and immeasurably more complicated than it would be if the author could have used musical examples, either as notation or in today's multi-media world with click on actual musical examples.

You chided me once or twice for getting cranky about excessive mental masturbation about theory as a substitute for learning to hear the theory in the flesh of the music. Which would you rather do? Make love to a real lovely woman or an inert plastic robot? You know what my answer would be.

Btw, there are much more accessible jazz theory pdfs available on line that provide much the same info in a more palatable language - minus the calculus notation.

Oh yeah, I didn't bother reading it - I could see it looked more like a maths dissertation! It was the first thing that came up, thought the OP might find something interesting in it.

Looking at the intro. I think he didn't use notation because the whole thesis is about analysing music using syntax/logic rules. It says at the top the guy's a scientist.

[mrcee]

I glanced at it and I'm sure there's a lot there of value if you can get past the science. I plan to spend at least a little time with it though as it's never bad to look at another way of doing things.

[targuit]

My point is simple - want to learn how to use diminished sevenths and m6th chords (m7b5s a third lower)? Learn how to play My Romance, My Foolish Heart, or any of the 90% plus jazz standards in which they are the flesh of the song.

Then, if you have time to waste on relearning music as calculus, spend hours trying to figure out what you ears and a skilled musician will teach you in five minutes, assuming your IQ is higher than room temperature.

That is not to say that musical theory per se is not valuable or worthy of study. Of course it is. But, to put the analogy another way. You can study from books how to do brain surgery, but would you prefer that the surgeon in charge has done the operation hundreds of time or a first timer? Think about it.

In any case there are other treatises on jazz theory that are comprehensive but not cloaked in the abstruse obfuscation of this piece of work. In effect the author is simply using the Roman numeral system to designate the relation of the chords to the tonic, but then adds in the calculus like garbage that just obscures the meaning and intent. The sustenance to be gained by following his 'dissertation" is too meager to justify the PITA required.

Check this pdf by Stuart Smith instead.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...040,bs.1,d.cWw

[Chuck]

57Classic -- not exactly what you've asked for, but the effort of looking up the progression(s) of interest will be at least generally beneficial (IMO).

The Harmonic Language of Standards ? In-Depth Summary | The Outside Shore

[fumblefingers]

John Mehegan's book 1.

tons of standards, harmonic analysis included.

book 4 too.

cheers.

[christianm77]

I've thought about writing a book like that. Basic skeleton changes in numerals for my students. So Stella first eight, for example:

#IVo7 | % | V7 | % | I7 | % | IV | % | etc.

You get the idea. Not sure what the best notation for modulations would be.

I could get one of the books listed, but I think I'll learn more doing it myself.

I think everyone should write their own book ultimately. That's the only reason why I wouldn't do a Skeleton Real Book. Maybe a how to guide with worked questions and answers at the back if that isn't too school.

If you have a few worked examples I'm sure you can work out (if it's not Wayne Shorter or something.) Think what you'd learn... If you need some pointers, could do some worked examples here. I tend to learn tunes by analysing - I listen, sing the melody and work out a basic sketch of the harmony, melody and so on, then listen for more detail, sing the bassline, listen for inner voice movement etc. Takes a while but I'm less likely to forget things that way. Also if you know the basics you can bluff it on a gig easier...

[fumblefingers]

Mehegan handles modulation in his analysis too.

[57classic]

Thanks! Your answers have already given me a lot. Although not exactly what I saw before me when posing my question.

What I look for is I guess: a songbook, with melody, lyrics and chords of a whole bunch of standards. For me personal, I prefer words that would note:

- where the song modulates, including between major and relative minor
- what the logic is behind chords that seemingly don't fit the current tonality
- which special scales rule the sound at certain moments
- ... and more

The following (superb) post on Nardis from member IbanezAS100 for example, was greatly clarifying to me and gave me answers that a mere roman numeral analysis wouldn't have given me:

"..Just another take on this...although the analyses/comments above are great and very thorough...

I think of the tune as being modal with the chord progression providing interesting root movement/colours (or being 'jazzed up' if you like).
The A section as built around an E tonal centre and the melody uses pitches that, if organised starting on E will give you : E-F-G sharp-A-B-C-D sharp.

In the Middle East/Mediterranean this is called Maqam Hijazqar and gives that 'exotic' sound of a major chord with a flat 6th, maj7th and a flat 9th.
The I to bIImaj7 movement emphasises the b9 (as in Flamenco), and the B7 to C could be thought of as a false cadence (V to bVI in E), with Am being the sub dominant and F providing the link back to E.

Since both Miles and Bill Evans liked Flamenco, composers like Khatchaturian and World Music in general, there's a good chance that was the basis of the composition (but don't quote me on this...) Nardis is also a favourite among musicians who play Arabic music and I've heard some great 'crossover' versions played on oud-I'm guessing because they recognise the scale/maqam as their own...

The B section is diatonic to Am/C (the final E from the A section now functioning as the dominant and leading to Am). Am to F clearly spells out Natural Minor/Aeolian and then there's the II-V-I in C, with the final F (bVI of Am but also bII of E) again being the link back to the E chord.

So, to sum up, I think of the A section as being more modal and the B section being more 'functional', in order to provide release and contrast.

You'll hear some of these ideas if you click on my Myspace link, in a reggae/Hendrix/Middle Eastern (or whatever you wanna call it) version of Nardis.

Hope this helps and best of luck tackling the tune..."

The book from Outside Shore seems great. First I'm gonna read the above mentioned summary. Mehegan's books I didn't know. There will be I time for me to study it, aswell as Smith's dissertation. But sooner than that I might give Conrad Cork's "Harmony with LEGO Bricks" a try.

But I still would like to find a source where I can quickly find the harmonic logic behind standards such as 'Round Midnight, Blue in Green, and even Footprints with that quirky turnaround...

[targuit]

I just spent a good part of my practice time last night working on 'Round Midnight. I have a personal transcription that I created in Sibelius notation software. What I do is bring up the transcription in my Sibelius library of transcriptions which is also a midi file. Let me premise that I do not need a full arrangement or sheet music to play this song. But I use the tools to enhance my practice. Transposition I can do on the fly into any key. But, I like to have the music stream for me, as I use the notation for harmonic ideas, as well as manipulate the tempo and key with a click or two. Btw, my Sibelius software is not the full blown $500 plus version but the starter now legacy G7 I bought for $60 on sale many years ago. Of course, you could also use a Band in a Box program, though inputting the chord designations is not the same educationally as writing out the notation yourself, though with Real Tracks you can fashion an excellent accompaniment for your rhythm section. Best would be to use both, though I don't have BIAB - wish I did for my demo recordings.

First thing, I transposed the sheet music into the key of Gm. It plays beautifully, but I ended up transposing into Em because the range of the melody and the fingering was better to execute in Em. I also like playing it in Dm.
All with a simple click or two of the mouse. Then I slowed the tempo down to a comfortable level to work on the tricky melody line. Some melodies flow very easily in the context of the harmony, songs by Richard Rogers, for example. But this tune's melody has some angularity, so if you are playing a chord melody style, how it lays on the finger board which depends on the key is quite important for best execution. Then, I focused on the accompaniment more specifically, changing some of the chords adding extra notes or filling out the harmony more with the melody demands in terms of fret position in mind.

I just played through the song several times, also improvising counter melodies. The net result is a very fruitful practice. I would not bore you with this post but to illustrate the importance of hearing the sound. Yes, you can take this fundamentally bluesy tune and analyze to your heart's content, but in the end you want to play it and have someone feel moved by the experience. It is not as easy to pull off flawlessly as one might think as a solo work.

To me this is the nitty gritty work in the shed that pays dividends, not agonizing over the harmonic analysis. But that is just my 2 cents...

[mrcee]

Round Midnight isn't the easiest song either. To play right.

[fumblefingers]

it sounds like what you're looking for is a theory book and songbook all in one. generally speaking, those are two different things. you either play what's written or study what makes up the tonal/harmonic/rhythmic/melodic parts of music.

so, the general idea is that the developing musician studies theory in parallel with his/her practicing and playing. one good practice is to analyze every piece/tune that you're playing at any given time. obviously this is mandatory for an improviser, and optional for a casual non-improvising player.

[Chuck]

Here's another potentially useful resource:

The Tonal Centers Page

[christianm77]

In the Middle East/Mediterranean this is called Maqam Hijazqar and gives that 'exotic' sound of a major chord with a flat 6th, maj7th and a flat 9th.
The I to bIImaj7 movement emphasises the b9 (as in Flamenco), and the B7 to C could be thought of as a false cadence (V to bVI in E), with Am being the sub dominant and F providing the link back to E.

This reminds me of a friend I know who plays a lot of Middle Eastern music who was thinking of getting a band vehicle. I suggest that she call it 'Hijaz Car.'

A joke of somewhat limited appeal.

[57classic]

Still, after all these great reactions.

What if I just want to look up the logic behind the chords Along Came Betty now?
Of the whole song, not just a part, without maybe's..

Where to go?