What Jazz Standard do YOU hate?

**reventlov** · 06-25-2015, 04:45 AM

Hate is too strong a word, but I can't stand Giant Steps. I did my three months worth of practice on it, having got it into my head that it was one of the things you 'had' to do in order to be a legit jazz player; once I could get through it, I played it on a few gigs and then dropped it, and never played it since then (that was 30 years ago!)

I get that it's a great exercise and I'm sure it was good for my development but frankly, as a piece of music, it does nothing for me. I've never heard any version of it ever that I enjoyed and if I ever hear it again it will be too soon - it belongs in the woodshed as an exercise, it has no place on the bandstand. Horrible tune.

**eblydian** · 06-25-2015, 05:50 AM

Blue Bossa

**smokinguit** · 06-25-2015, 06:24 AM

How can anyone hate Kenny Dorham's blue bossa as played on Joe Henderson's Page One album. Unbelievable. Blue Bossa is the kind of song you never get tired of provided it is played in the spirit of Page One.

**smokinguit** · 06-25-2015, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by reventlov

Hate is too strong a word, but I can't stand Giant Steps. I did my three months worth of practice on it, having got it into my head that it was one of the things you 'had' to do in order to be a legit jazz player; once I could get through it, I played it on a few gigs and then dropped it, and never played it since then (that was 30 years ago!)

I get that it's a great exercise and I'm sure it was good for my development but frankly, as a piece of music, it does nothing for me. I've never heard any version of it ever that I enjoyed and if I ever hear it again it will be too soon - it belongs in the woodshed as an exercise, it has no place on the bandstand. Horrible tune.

Absolutely agree. Giant Step was great when I first heard it. Now it's kind of annoying. I wouldn't call it horrible though.

**smokinguit** · 06-25-2015, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Cunamara

I could go the rest of my life and never play "All The Things You Are" again. It's not that I hate the tune, it is just SO overplayed that there is just no reason to hear it again- ever. There are a lot of great jazz tunes that are underplayed, pick some of those instead. I feel this way about many of the standards. For pete's sake, write some new tunes already! The reason "jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" is the mildew growing on those songs.

ATTYA has become a filler material tune on gigs and albums. It's the kinda tune you play when you are out of ideas of what to play.

**Reg** · 06-25-2015, 10:45 AM

Yea... after 40+ years of plain the same tunes... generally because many musicians just don't read well enough to cover new material or new arrangements... I say it becomes more of which musicians I hate playin with as compared to what tunes. Almost any tune can become fun to play live with good musicians.

**princeplanet** · 06-25-2015, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Reg

Yea... after 40+ years of plain the same tunes... generally because many musicians just don't read well enough to cover new material or new arrangements... I say it becomes more of which musicians I hate playin with as compared to what tunes. Almost any tune can become fun to play live with good musicians.

Fun to play maybe, but to listen to?.... Anyhow, to offer my 2c, can I say that I don't like 95% of the tunes that are considered "Standards"? All the tunes I like (hard bop and post bop) from the late 50' to mid 60's are definitely not Standards.

Good thing I don't need to play gigs for a living!

**mikeSF** · 06-25-2015, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by eblydian

Blue Bossa

that's a favorite of mine.

**targuit** · 06-25-2015, 01:22 PM

My vote is for Giant Steps. And for some reason solo versions of Cherokee are a close second.

As for Girl From Ipanema, I love that tune and most anything that Jobim wrote. So much so that I remember clear as day the first time I heard it on the radio. Must be my Latin soul.

**mr. beaumont** · 06-25-2015, 01:39 PM

Jay, you should hop on facebook and check out what Jam of The Week is doing with "Steps." Might change your mind.

It's actually a pretty cool chord progression and a very memorable melody. Problem is, folks treat it like a contest.

**jordanklemons** · 06-25-2015, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by vintagelove

I totally get your point and agree, and let's not even talk about the ignorance of youth....

i still want to try one last time to pull it out of you....

I think if we are all completely honest with ourselves, there is certain music that exists naturally within us, you could argue were born with it. There is other music that even if we work hard at it, and can play it well, still does nothing to enrich our soul.

for instance, when I started classical guitar, I couldn't read music, so I had to start playing music much below what I was capable of. Anyway my teacher had me playing (among other things) the Brower etudes. I couldn't stand them, well... One was okay. Anyway it got to a point where I said, "can I just play some Bach" .... He paused and went and copied me a Bach fugue. I performed it the next concert. A Bach fugue is like 10,000x harder than a Brower piece, but because it existed within me, I was able to play it better than the easy Brower etudes.

so I will ask one last Time, is there a song you play, that even though you play it well, it just doesn't do anything for you, if nothing else, emotionally?

its quite possible there isn't, some folks are pretty easy going. I'm a red headed Scotsman, easy going isn't our thing....

Easy going isn't your thing?! Hahaha...I once dated a girl who had previously dated a red headed Scotsman and said the same thing. But I took it with a grain of salt.

I mean look, I'm not going to run out and buy every record by every artist. I don't LOVE every song I've ever heard. But mostly I think that boils down to the differences in aesthetic preferences between myself and other artists.

But when it come to playing tunes, I genuinely can't think of tunes I hate playing. The closest I can come up with is playing ANY tune that I feel really uncomfortable with. I was playing in an ensemble a few months ago and the leader called Airegin and then counted it off CLEARLY while overdosing on speed. The drummer pulled out his metronome at the end of the tune and tap tempo checked where we playing it at. 370 bpm. I hated that. I just don't practice tunes THAT fast, and was having an unbelievably hard time hearing lines and melodies and ideas that worked there...let alone being able to execute them!

But truly, for me it's way more about the creativity and conviction that I, and the other people I'm playing with, bring to the table for me.

If I had to choose between playing Blue Bossa, All of Me, Girl from Ipanema, etc etc all night with the most energetic, outside-the-box, open-minded, creative musicians......or......play the most fun Coltrane and bebop tunes all night but with boring, lifeless musicians who are reading everything off charts and can't listen and react and bring some level of spontaneity to the group....

I'd go with the 1st scenario every time. I don't think the tune makes the tune. If that makes sense. It's part of the equation for sure, but we can pick any great tune and go on youtube and find any number of boring versions of it. For me, with both playing and listening, it's usually not enough to just 'play' the tune (playing the right notes, making the changes, etc). I guess I may be easy going, but I also get bored kind of easily. I live in NY and am surrounded by amazing players to listen to, study with, and play with. If I'm not feeling inspired, I will often times take off and either go see someone else or go home and practice. And I don't feel inspired because the band is playing any particular tune or avoiding any particular tune. I get inspired because of the WAY they're playing. The tune is just the topic of conversation. I'm more interested in how they speak with each other.

**Reg** · 06-25-2015, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by princeplanet

Fun to play maybe, but to listen to?.... Anyhow, to offer my 2c, can I say that I don't like 95% of the tunes that are considered "Standards"? All the tunes I like (hard bop and post bop) from the late 50' to mid 60's are definitely not Standards.

Good thing I don't need to play gigs for a living!

Hey Princeplanet... I tend to find most audiences enjoy the music more when the performers are enjoying the music. Generally audiences that actually know styles and specific tunes etc... are rare. Some do get something out of the compositional aspects of the music.... but when it's played lousy. You lose them anyway. Were not talking about pop concerts right... head liners etc...

I do agree I'm not a big fan of the old show, musical, movie etc... classics... There boring...but most of the more modern tunes still use many of the compositional techniques, and concepts, just have more to pull from. Which can be applied to standards ... reharmonize....structural aspects etc...You can basically take any standard and modernize the harmony, the melody, the form, the rhythm... basically your playing a new modern tune... but you keep enough of the melody or harmony, whatever keeps the implication of the standard so it's still there.

Bop tunes are always fun to play... but again is it the tune or the performance. And even when it's the tune, the performance needs to be a very high level of performance.

**christianm77** · 06-25-2015, 05:55 PM

Interesting thread. Seems to me by 'hate' there's a few different definitions:

1) Things that you just hate. Tunes you don't like in any way.
2) Tunes that you hate to play for some reason, can't make work.
3) Tunes that are overplayed - 'dog meat' etc.

For me
1) Actually not that many. A lot of the Dixieland rep sounds interchangeable to me though. I think I could suffer to never hear 'Yes Sir, That's My Baby' ever again.

2) There are many of these - some tunes I like to play but are just hard for me to solo on.
Douce Ambience, Limehouse Blues, Sweet Georgia Brown, 4 on 6, Song for my Father, many more.

Weirdly, these aren't the traditional toughies - ATTYA, Solar, Giant Steps, Cherokee, Stella etc. I find those tunes OK to solo on.

3) A lot of tunes in this category are taught on jazz courses, often because the harmony is simple, or particuarly didactic (ATTYA falls into this category for me. It is so important as an exercise, and called so often, you end up playing it anyway. For me the melody is better in 3/4.)

I think it's true that many of these tunes (Blue Bossa, Song for My Father and so on, quite a lot of the Blue Note canon actually) are much better records then they are compositions. I'm realising that when it comes down to it, if you are playing in a guitar trio, 9 times out of 10 you are best off calling a standard with a great melody. There are some jazz compositions which have this quality - James by Metheny for example - but on the whole I find that if everything is a struggle the best thing is to call the Very Thought of You or something like that. Or anything by Cole Porter.

**henryrobinett** · 06-25-2015, 06:04 PM

I love much of those old standard tunes that you can swing the hell out of. Simple as hell but I still love Bye Bye Blackbird, My Romance, Body and Soul, Stella By Starlight, Cherokee, ATTYA, etc.

**pingu** · 06-25-2015, 06:52 PM

I was playing in an ensemble a few months ago and the leader called Airegin and then counted it off CLEARLY while overdosing on speed. The drummer pulled out his metronome at the end of the tune and tap tempo checked where we playing it at. 370 bpm. I hated that.

OMG nightmare .....
I've got a stratagy for those situations
I don't take a solo !

**grahambop** · 06-25-2015, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

I love much of those old standard tunes that you can swing the hell out of. Simple as hell but I still love Bye Bye Blackbird, My Romance, Body and Soul, Stella By Starlight, Cherokee, ATTYA, etc.

I see the dreaded auto-correct got at Henry - it says the reason for his edit was 'typhoon' ! At least I hope it was just the auto-correct!

The last 4 of those tunes are some of my favourites - I'm still getting loads of mileage playing them regularly when I practise.

I can't really think of a standard I hate.

**henryrobinett** · 06-25-2015, 07:27 PM

LOL! I always type typhoon as the reason rather than typo. My typo was "I love much of those old standard tunes that you can SING the hell out of," rather than swing the hell out of. I didn't want Jay to get excited that I was singing the hell out of those tunes.

**grahambop** · 06-25-2015, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

LOL! I always type typhoon as the reason rather than typo. My typo was "I love much of those old standard tunes that you can SING the hell out of," rather than swing the hell out of. I didn't want Jay to get excited that I was singing the hell out of those tunes.

A guy at work couldn't come in one day and he sent me an email which just said 'Dying'.

I was getting a bit concerned until I found that what he'd actually typed was 'FYI' (for your information)!

**jordanklemons** · 06-25-2015, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by pingu

OMG nightmare .....
I've got a stratagy for those situations
I don't take a solo !

Yeah, unfortunately, we don't always get that say :/

I shouldn't complain when the drummer and bass player have to muscle through the tune for 4 soloists! hahaha

**kenbennett** · 06-25-2015, 08:00 PM

Oh, there's too many to name!

I only like about 10% of all music, whatever the genre. And that's one thing that eventually excluded me from the mainstream commercial music business. I excluded myself, and I consider it the biggest mistake of my life, discriminating against the music.

Some of the people I came up with ended up with gold records and Grammys and shit. But it's because they just wanted to make music and followed the path of least resistance to get there. Whereas I'm an idiot.

So what good is it now to tell you what I don't like. I should have put my own opinions aside long ago and served someone else's vision.