Jazz Blues - Why does it seem to get so little love around here?

**AlsoRan** · 06-02-2015, 08:37 PM

Am I imagining things or does it seem like Jazz Blues does not get a lot of love around here? When forum members post their playing, I don't remember seeing many Jazz Blues. In fact, other that Jack Zucker's percolating "Fast Blues in Ab," and a nice lesson from Reg, (and a couple from others) I don't remember seeing many Jazz Blues postings in the few years I have been around.

The topic does not seem to get discussed very much either. Is it just me (again) or am I correct?

**nick1994** · 06-02-2015, 08:45 PM

I guess there's not much to discuss about it.

**mr. beaumont** · 06-02-2015, 08:56 PM

I dunno. I think you're just seeing a reflection of the ratio of jazz/blues to not jazz/blues.

I love a good jazz blues. My favorites are Freight Trane and Straight, No Chaser.

**Hep To The Jive** · 06-02-2015, 09:01 PM

Maybe people think its too easy, or its understood everybody can play it as a default form, I dunno. But Im sure anyone loves it, and not just jazz blues. You can't be a good jazzman without mastering the blues first, anyway.

**AlsoRan** · 06-02-2015, 09:42 PM

You guys both might have hit it on the head. All that you said occurred to me. In fact, I even had a pro Jazz guitarist tell me it was not challenging enough.

**MarkRhodes** · 06-02-2015, 09:50 PM

I never get tired of this.

Kenny Burrell is such a master

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 06-02-2015, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by AlsoRan

You guys both might have hit it on the head. All that you said occurred to me. In fact, I even had a pro Jazz guitarist tell me it was not challenging enough.

Coltrane kept returning to them. Lazy bugger.

**Stuart Elliott** · 06-02-2015, 11:40 PM

One of most active threads on the forum is a discussion of Herb Ellis' book on Swing Blues

**grahambop** · 06-03-2015, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by AlsoRan

In fact, I even had a pro Jazz guitarist tell me it was not challenging enough.

I am always a bit suspicious of people who say things like that. People like Wes Montgomery and Johnny Griffin never stopped finding blues a great form to improvise on, for the whole of their lives.

**MarkRhodes** · 06-03-2015, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Stuart Elliott

One of most active threads on the forum is a discussion of Herb Ellis' book on Swing Blues

That is a great book. Herb was definitely a "blues-infused" player. Here's something (-posted before but worth another listen) Herb called "Blues For Everyone." (The camera is out of focus initially: do not adjust your set!) This is great because Herb is playing alone and you can see----if you're familiar with his books and 'shape system'---how "practiced what he preached."

**pushkar000** · 06-03-2015, 12:40 PM

Not much to talk about I guess. Why don't we all just share one or two nice recordings instead?
Here's one. Very nice solo by Joshua Redman at around 1:27.

**22tango** · 06-03-2015, 01:59 PM

I wish some day I can say I don't find playing this challenging:

**Dave70** · 06-03-2015, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by AlsoRan

Am I imagining things or does it seem like Jazz Blues does not get a lot of love around here?

That's a tragic topic for some folks:

Sorry, every time I see "Jazz Blues" I remember this clip... (or was it "Blues Jazz"?)

**fep** · 06-03-2015, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I dunno. I think you're just seeing a reflection of the ratio of jazz/blues to not jazz/blues.

I love a good jazz blues. My favorites are Freight Trane and Straight, No Chaser.

Yeah, pretty sure I posted Straight No Chaser at on point on this forum.

When I go out and see Jazz in town, Jazz-blues tunes seem to be pretty well represented in the groups play lists.

**RClegg** · 06-03-2015, 03:11 PM

I have to post one of my favorite blues, even if it doesn't have any guitar. I wouldn't call this too simplistic!

Russ

**AlsoRan** · 06-03-2015, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Stuart Elliott

One of most active threads on the forum is a discussion of Herb Ellis' book on Swing Blues

Thanks for drawing that thread to my attention. I checked it out and there are some ideas I can learn from it. I was sticking with using the Major and Minor Blues Scales but there are some nice arpeggio shapes that I can stick in.

One thing I like about Jazz Blues is its predictability and the fact that I have listened to Blues and can feel when a chord's time is about to run out and a new one will be coming. Also, as Monk said in another thread, all you really have to do (I am paraphrasing) is play something that sounds good or "Bluesy."

**wolflen** · 06-03-2015, 05:26 PM

always a hot topic ... take the blues out of jazz..not just the progression..the blue notes..the feel..all the ingrained nuances that are inherent in the form.. it would be something else..not sure what you would call it..but it would NOT be jazz..

from raw basic country guitar ONE chord blues to miles' "all blues" and all of the new interpretations of the structure..it still is growing..changing..full of energy and surprises..and connects with the listener in a way that does not need to be analyzed..its instant..no explanations necessary..for such a "simple" form..it has generated more music by more people and enjoyed by millions and it is always welcome by players and listeners..it is a friend to the musician..and it grows and develops into different shapes and colors and says things..party loud and intimate soft..

thank you: Kenny Burrell and the thousands of players and all the early blues musicians who made the guitar a most wonderful way to express the countless faces of the blues

so for the topic heading..." jazz blues" ... in a very direct way there would not be jazz without the blues..

**pushkar000** · 06-03-2015, 05:43 PM

Somebody said that their definition of jazz was
1) It has to have the implication of swing
2) It has to have syncopating
3) It has to have the blues
I forgot who.

Edit : John Lewis
2:10 in the video. Victor Goines talks about what John Lewis told him.

**Vladan** · 06-04-2015, 03:49 AM

Because there is that notion about blues being too simple to play (and discuss).
Also if you try to post some jazz blues to some blues community, chances are they will politely ask you to stick to the topic, giving you a waning before ban, for spamming. Happened to me, not only once. Had to tell them to change the name from "Blues" into "12 Bar Roadhouse Shuffle".
And my jazz blues stuff is not really jazz first place. Which lead to ...
... check my YT channel, you may find a couple, and the rest is also blues based, with a hint oh jazz, in a way, anyway ...

**AlsoRan** · 06-04-2015, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Vladan

Because there is that notion about blues being too simple to play (and discuss).
Also if you try to post some jazz blues to some blues community, chances are they will politely ask you to stick to the topic, giving you a waning before ban, for spamming. Happened to me, not only once. Had to tell them to change the name from "Blues" into "12 Bar Roadhouse Shuffle".
And my jazz blues stuff is not really jazz first place. Which lead to ...
... check my YT channel, you may find a couple, and the rest is also blues based, with a hint oh jazz, in a way, anyway ...

Vladan,

I am hesitant to admit it, but I have noticed some truth in your first sentence. To just be plain honest, IMHO there is an element of elitism that we all know about that makes some relegate Jazz Blues to a "lower rung" of the Jazz ladder.

But isn't that human nature? "My dogs better than your dog" like the songs says. I would not take it personally because it is clear in your music that you are no rookie.

**Greentone** · 06-04-2015, 03:16 PM

Sorry. Everyone loves the blues. If they say otherwise, they are probably lying. Jazz IS the blues. You put a handful of jazz people into a room with their instruments and I guarantee that they are going to explore a blues. It is like having a passport or something.

There are about a bazillion tunes to work from. Bb is probably the international (interplanetary?) key to start with. I don't see why KB's Midnight Blue wouldn't be a great tune to begin from.

Me? I love me some blues. From Louis to Miles...it's all blues...(pun intended).

**AlsoRan** · 06-04-2015, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

Sorry. Everyone loves the blues. If they say otherwise, they are probably lying. Jazz IS the blues. You put a handful of jazz people into a room with their instruments and I guarantee that they are going to explore a blues. It is like having a passport or something.

There are about a bazillion tunes to work from. Bb is probably the international (interplanetary?) key to start with. I don't see why KB's Midnight Blue wouldn't be a great tune to begin from.

Me? I love me some blues. From Louis to Miles...it's all blues...(pun intended).

I have to defer to your insight, Greeny.

Thanks.

**gggomez** · 06-04-2015, 07:57 PM

Obviously jazz keeps evolving and the blues keeps evolving. The blues is so now:

and now

when will the dam blues leave

**AlsoRan** · 06-04-2015, 08:43 PM

Wow. I really liked that Gilad fellow!

**richb2** · 06-05-2015, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Vladan

Because there is that notion about blues being too simple to play (and discuss).
Also if you try to post some jazz blues to some blues community, chances are they will politely ask you to stick to the topic, giving you a waning before ban, for spamming. Happened to me, not only once. Had to tell them to change the name from "Blues" into "12 Bar Roadhouse Shuffle".
And my jazz blues stuff is not really jazz first place. Which lead to ...
... check my YT channel, you may find a couple, and the rest is also blues based, with a hint oh jazz, in a way, anyway ...

Well Vladan, none of that around here! You could load 22 highly produced videos of your band playing "baby boomer rock", note for note, and no one would say anything. This jazz forum is the strangest bunch of dudes I have ever "met".