View Poll Results: How many Charlie Parker tunes do you know?
- Voters
- 75. You may not vote on this poll
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I don't know any
16 21.33% -
A couple
32 42.67% -
A half dozen or so
17 22.67% -
At least a dozen, probably a few more
6 8.00% -
Twenty, easy, probably more
4 5.33%
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I know folks say that, but "Steps" is a pretty simple, catchy melody.
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03-22-2015 10:53 PM
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Sometimes one's ears can be opened by "guided listening". I found this pretty interesting
THE DOZENS: STEVE COLEMAN ON CHARLIE PARKER ? Jazz.com | Jazz Music? Jazz Artists? Jazz News
Steve Coleman is pretty good at articulating the depth of this music.
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
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Originally Posted by nick1994
That's why I listen to more Jackie McClean than Bird these days, but I did enough homework on Bird to know that's where Jackie got his whole bag.... But yeah, you hear elements of Bird in nearly every great player that followed, even Dolphy. That's why you gotta go to the source to understand post war Jazz...
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Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
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Originally Posted by henryrobinett
Last edited by princeplanet; 03-23-2015 at 12:50 AM.
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03-23-2015, 05:26 AM #107destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by princeplanet
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When in doubt quote... you know.. "Imitate......L..
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03-23-2015, 05:52 AM #109destinytot GuestIs it time to supplement Parker's works with another player's or composer's when developing one's vocabulary and capability, and if so who? (answer limited to 1-2 artists please)
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03-23-2015, 06:54 AM #110Dutchbopper GuestOriginally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon
People here are describing Broyale in terms what he is not. He is not a kid. He is in his mid 30s for crying out loud. I'm not going to father him. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
DB
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03-23-2015, 06:55 AM #111destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by larry graves
The Innovation part may be completely beyond my experience, but I can appreciate the value of Imitation in learning to play jazz.
I don't believe that recommending Imitation was ever meant as an endorsement of mimicry as an end in itself - no, that's not it at all.
The advice is intended to make students notice things they might otherwise ignore.
(In this regard, Clark Terry's advice concurs with Oscar Wilde's 'Paradoxically though it may seem, it is none the less true that life imitates art far more than art imitates life.')
Sounds like good advice to me, and Bird's music makes a superlative model.
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Originally Posted by fumblefingers
As for Parker heads as a rite of passage - actually, I agree with that; it was something of which I felt that I needed some understanding of what was going on there musically, before I was ready to give them a proper go. Now I know half-a-dozen or so and I'm starting to pick apart what he played as solos, having got the heads under my fingers.
First time I heard Bird though (and he was one of the first jazzmen that I actually heard), I almost felt like his music was something that as a mere mortal, I'd never be able even to approach, it was that overwhelming. Even 40 years later, I still feel like I'm merely wandering in the foothills of Mt. Parker, looking up......
Maybe not necessarily my favourite saxophonist, but I cannot deny a massive respect for his playing, nor an awareness of his place in the development of this music.
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Originally Posted by Broyale
Interesting to note that Benson has stated in interviews that Parker was 'the best jazz musician and one of my biggest inspirations'.
Benson did a great version of the Parker tune Billies Bounce - could be worth checking out:
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03-23-2015, 08:05 AM #114destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by mangotango
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I think it is beneficial to learn a few Parker heads if you are learning to play jazz, even if you don't like his music so much, because they encapsulate a lot of his virtues in a few bars, and will teach you some approaches which go against the grain of your normal habits.
For example, say you've reached the point of being able to play a nice melodic solo on a tune like Autumn Leaves, where you can connect up all the chord tones and play long lines of 8th notes. That's great, but it's also a bit of a trap, because now you're going to play like that on all the tunes, and for the average listener it could all get a bit 'samey'.
Now learn some Parker heads, and they will probably force you out of those habitual patterns, because they are full of devices such as:
- unusually placed accents
- unusually placed rests
- triplets
- chromaticism
- delayed phrases/resolutions
- anticipated phrases/resolutions
- asymmetrical note groupings
- tied notes
- across-the-bar phrasing
- interval jumps
The point is, at first it is HARD to play these things, precisely because they are counter-intuitive. I would never have thought of using most of these devices if I hadn't played some Parker stuff. But eventually they will get into your brain and under your fingers. Then when you solo, you can try and apply some of these concepts and it will definitely make your playing more interesting.
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Originally Posted by destinytot
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Originally Posted by mangotango
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Originally Posted by larry graves
uh-huh. are you advocating the idea that student musicians can be counted on to effectively learn the art of improvisation strictly from learning CST and tapping into their own creative instincts?
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Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
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03-23-2015, 09:07 AM #121destinytot GuestFirst time I heard Bird though (and he was one of the first jazzmen that I actually heard), I almost felt like his music was something that as a mere mortal, I'd never be able even to approach, it was that overwhelming. Even 40 years later, I still feel like I'm merely wandering in the foothills of Mt. Parker, looking up......
I've known (personally) two guitarists who've scaled up that fabled mountain, and it's scared me back to my senses. I take the view that Parker's music is not to be trifled with or trivialised; it's a discipline, not a refuge.
But, ultimately, it's a discipline of Self. (On the question of sanctity of self, I agree with Broyale - and with Henry - that it's wrong to arbitrarily or artificially impose a value system on anyone when opinions differ.)
I'm quite content picking flowers in the foothills - channelling my energies into fashioning something of Beauty, wrought from my own experience.
Maybe not necessarily my favourite saxophonist, but I cannot deny a massive respect for his playing, nor an awareness of his place in the development of this music.
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Way back in 1977 - 1978 I had an every Saturday hour and a half drive to my guitar instructor. I spent a lot of that time playing Charlie Parker on my car stereo and singing along, I got to really appreciate him that way. I think anyone that put that kind of time in listening to Parker would learn to really appreciate him. Not sure it's possible to not appreciate Confirmation once you really know it. Same can be said for his other tunes.
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03-23-2015, 09:25 AM #123destinytot GuestThe point is, at first it is HARD to play these things, precisely because they are counter-intuitive.
I think 'teaching', counter-intuitively, makes them 'hard' - bad teaching, that is.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Herb Ellis suggests that guitar players study Charlie Parker solos to learn how to make the changes. Charlie was brilliant at it. So much of what he did is now part of the common vocabulary of jazz.
That said, it would be daunting to start with Parker's solos. They challenge professionals---they are too much for beginners. But listening to Parker is good, and learning some of the simpler heads is good, then picking out maybe one chorus of a blues, and then, and then....
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03-23-2015, 09:41 AM #125destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by grahambop
From Bar Chords to Bebop
Today, 02:33 PM in Improvisation