View Poll Results: How many Charlie Parker tunes do you know?

Voters
75. You may not vote on this poll
  • I don't know any

    16 21.33%
  • A couple

    32 42.67%
  • A half dozen or so

    17 22.67%
  • At least a dozen, probably a few more

    6 8.00%
  • Twenty, easy, probably more

    4 5.33%
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  1. #51

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    You know, this is so stupid. Broyale doesn't like Bird. So what? Who cares? He doesn't like him. Why should that if end ANYONE??? Taste is taste and is subjective. This shouldn't be done fascist fall in lock step with conventional opinion forum. The jazz police are heavily in force here. This is bullshit. I used to tell people I didn't like Bach, and I didn't. It offended the hell out if people. I grew to appreciate his music but WHO THE F CARES?????? LIVE AND LET LIVE.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52
    Dutchbopper Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by larry graves
    How many years ago was that?...We were playing this stuff in the sixties, it was old hat then, jazz is an evolving art form (isn't it), If your any good at it, you do your own thing, not create a perpetual ground hog day. We should rename this site "The dead poets society"......All the practicing and learning in the world will not make you creative if you haven't got it in the first place. Regurgitating 60yr old music isn't going convince anybody otherwise. I suppose the bedroom players will scream from the roof tops, but in the real world it's a different matter, "Charley Who?......

    I think "the flat earth society" would be way more appropriate for this forum.

    DB

  4. #53
    destinytot Guest
    Broyale doesn't like Bird.
    That isn't at issue.

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broyale
    Its okay, nothing I would buy. The melody doesn't really stick to me though. "shrugs"
    So, if I don't find Parker's playing listenable this means I don't understand jazz? At what point in my jazz development am I supposed shut off all subjectivity and accept the greatness of Parker?
    Listen to this solo again in 10 years. If you don't feel anything then, you must be doing something wrong!

    Seriously, in that great list of your fave solos, I seriously doubt that a single one of those players did not worship at the altar of Parker at some point in their learning. "Modern" Jazz starts with Bird. Sure it's moved on in many directions since, but if you don't get what everyone sees as special in what Bird brought to Jazz, then you just don't get Jazz. You don't have to love it, but you do have to respect it.

    There simply can be no ifs or buts on this, it's not even a subjective call, like saying if you don't like Joe Pass you don't like Jazz- on that one I'd say that is subjective. But not Parker, no way. Bird to Jazz is what the Bible is to Christianity!

    Period.

    Stop your deeply offensive trolling, you are spoiling a potentially good thread.

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    You know, this is so stupid. Broyale doesn't like Bird. So what? Who cares? He doesn't like him. Why should that if end ANYONE??? Taste is taste and is subjective. This shouldn't be done fascist fall in lock step with conventional opinion forum. The jazz police are heavily in force here. This is bullshit. I used to tell people I didn't like Bach, and I didn't. It offended the hell out if people. I grew to appreciate his music but WHO THE F CARES?????? LIVE AND LET LIVE.

    i hear ya. Mahler isn't for everyone either. doesn't mean they don't appreciate great classical music.

  7. #56

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    I think you guys are full of it. I really do.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by larry graves
    This is just painting by numbers....copying!!.......L..

    so you are not a believer in the Imitate, Assimilate, Innovate concept, we take it?


    what learning path should the developing Improviser follow, or for that matter, Composer?
    Last edited by fumblefingers; 03-22-2015 at 01:37 PM.

  9. #58
    Dutchbopper Guest
    Full of what?

    DB

  10. #59

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    I definitely don't think the issue is not liking Bird here...Broyale's been having a tough relationship with this music...this has been going on for a while.

    There's really nothing more irritating than somebody telling you that you need to like something. But it's also tough to take somebody seriously when they make a comment like the "raging hard on for Charlie Parker" biz too. Respecting the fact Parker changed music forever--and jazz today would not exist as it does--is not blimd "sheep" like following. Anybody with ears can hear it. And if you can't--just as those who like to argue here improvisation isn't the key thing about jazz--maybe JAZZ just ain't your bag.

    Reg will post here from time to time saying "its music, we're not saving lives." Might be a good time for that perspective.

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    I feel so disconnected from replies like this that, though we seem to be on the same forum (are we really?), I somehow doubt we even play the same instrument.

    DB
    you don't. You play guitar, he types.

    Guys like him ruin the forums for people who are actually real students of the instrument. And to Henry's ridiculous contention that we're all puppies and unicorns and rainbows....Sorry but no. There are established greats. They are established greats for a reason.

    Also, only an attention-whore comes into a charlie parker thread and calls bird's playing vomit.

    Got to be one of the most ignorant postings I've ever here and that's saying something.

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I definitely don't think the issue is not liking Bird here...Broyale's been having a tough relationship with this music...this has been going on for a while.

    There's really nothing more irritating than somebody telling you that you need to like something. But it's also tough to take somebody seriously when they make a comment like the "raging hard on for Charlie Parker" biz too. Respecting the fact Parker changed music forever--and jazz today would not exist as it does--is not blimd "sheep" like following. Anybody with ears can hear it. And if you can't--just as those who like to argue here improvisation isn't the key thing about jazz--maybe JAZZ just ain't your bag.

    Reg will post here from time to time saying "its music, we're not saving lives." Might be a good time for that perspective.
    I think the larger point is being missed here. To come into a Charlie Parker thread and to say his playing is vomit is just a weak attempt at getting attention. He did it for a reaction. Either he needs to attention or he's taking a cue form RB and just trying to stir the pot. At least RB does it with intelligence and humor.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    Full of what?

    DB
    Maybe Henry thinks we're on heroin...

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    Full of what?

    DB
    and which guys? so confusing, hehe.

  15. #64

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    We all let our guards/screens/filters down on internet forums. If we hang on for a second and imagine a human being in front of us instead of a computer screen, I think the whole thing is not actually so bad as it seems. No need to go too far.

    Broyale if you're still hanging around this thread - wish you all the best from a fellow beginner!

  16. #65

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    I think bullshit to try an force anyone by intimidation or calling ignorance when someone doesn't like a revered figure. People get their noses pushed out of shape. It happens to me. It's snobbery. He has the right to not like or like what he wants and we have nothing to do with it. We can accept it or not but we cannot change it. Not by force or ostracism or name calling. I admire Broyale's guts for saying what he did in the face of crys to the contrary. I happen to think Bird was a genius and changed the face of 20th century music. But SO WHAT???? The world is F'ed up because too many people are up in arms because THOSE OTHER PEOPLE have different opinions!!!

    Geesus!!!!!
    Last edited by henryrobinett; 03-22-2015 at 02:01 PM.

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    I think the larger point is being missed here. To come into a Charlie Parker thread and to say his playing is vomit is just a weak attempt at getting attention. He did it for a reaction. Either he needs to attention or he's taking a cue form RB and just trying to stir the pot. At least RB does it with intelligence and humor.

    Nah...i don't think it's just trolling. Broyale's been having a tough time with jazz as a whole...i don't think he's yet reconciled with the fact that it takes a long time to become even passable as a player...there's been a lot of threads here where he's looked for outs...questioning some common knowledge/acceptances because he's not getting the results he wants. But he's not a bad guy, and not just here to start shit. But we gotta plenty of those people too. And some who just don't seem to really like jazz.

  18. #67
    Dutchbopper Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    You know, this is so stupid. Broyale doesn't like Bird. So what? Who cares? He doesn't like him. Why should that if end ANYONE???
    Maybe because he chooses to liken the man's playing to vomit?

    DB

  19. #68
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by fumblefingers
    i hear ya. Mahler isn't for everyone either. doesn't mean they don't appreciate great classical music.
    Great answer, and an important principle. Thank you!

    Charlie Parker was an interesting person, but his music is a major turn-off for me and his solos are unlistenable.
    Actually, I felt that way at 18, reading the Ross Russell biography and wanting to get his music. (I was 25 when my ears opened - and when they did, it opened the door to a whole world of Beauty.)

  20. #69

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    In the end, Henry's got the right idea.

    It's also good advice for when you don't like somethimg, try to understand why...and if it's just not for you, that doesn't make it crap.

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    Maybe because he chooses to liken the man's playing to vomit?

    DB
    So???!!!!!

  22. #71

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    Broyale's having a tough time accepting jazz on OUR terms. Maybe he's doing just fine on his own. I don't know.

  23. #72

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    Well, it's a bit like walking into a bar in Bridgeport and screaming "white sox suck!" And then running out expecting folks are gonna pat you on the back and buy you a beer.

    I mean, is it all stupid and meaningless in the end? Sure. But ya can't deny human nature...

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    You know, this is so stupid. Broyale doesn't like Bird. So what? Who cares? He doesn't like him. Why should that if end ANYONE??? Taste is taste and is subjective. This shouldn't be done fascist fall in lock step with conventional opinion forum. The jazz police are heavily in force here. This is bullshit. I used to tell people I didn't like Bach, and I didn't. It offended the hell out if people. I grew to appreciate his music but WHO THE F CARES?????? LIVE AND LET LIVE.
    Henry, if someone compared your music to vomit, would you not be offended?

    He could have just said he doesn't like Bird, then none of this would have happened.

  25. #74

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    Not a fair comparison at all. Nobody here called each other's music vomit.

  26. #75
    Dutchbopper Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Not a fair comparison at all. Nobody here called each other's music vomit.
    Your point being?