Autumn Leaves - Improvisation

[JazzGuitar]

Hi All

I am a newbie to Jazz Guitar and I have something that I want to run by you guys.

I've been learning Autumn Leaves in the key of GMajor/Em (Am7 - D7 - GMaj7 - CMaj7 - F#m7b5 - E7b9 - Em7)

I've been watching some very inspiring videos on this site and other of people playing the song.

My question: When improvising over the Chords, do I need to stay in the key of E Minor?

What are the recommended ways for a newbie to approach improvising over this tune?

Also (I'm struggling to verbalize this) - I've seen videos where the player plays 4 notes and then 2 chords:
note-note-note-note - Am7 - D7
note-note-note-note - GMaj7 - CMaj7 etc etc - Is there a term for this style of playing? Are those notes all in G Major?

Any help will be great, thanks

[mr. beaumont]

Second to last chord should be a B7b9.

Jazz improv involves addressing the chords...so staying with one scale might sound pretty weak, and not jazzy.

My suggestion would be to look at arpeggios for these chords, target the thirds and sevenths, and if your brain likes scales, try an E harmonic minor for the F#m7b5 to B7b9 to Eminor part...

[bobby d]

I wouldn't stay completely in the diatonic scale, but use it as a guide. Find and use the color tones (flat 5, flat 9, sharp 5, sharp 9) where appropriate. Also use the chords as a guide and learn all positions and inversions. Work on playing the scale and arps in each of those chord positions. Finding all positions of F#m7b5 is the biggest challenge to me.

Next, play the song using all that you've learned ^ over and over. Chord melodies (voice leading), arps, scale fragments and octaves (Wes style). I like a little space when improvising to make phrasing more interesting.

[JazzGuitar]

Second to last chord should be a B7b9.

Jazz improv involves addressing the chords...so staying with one scale might sound pretty weak, and not jazzy.

My suggestion would be to look at arpeggios for these chords, target the thirds and sevenths, and if your brain likes scales, try an E harmonic minor for the F#m7b5 to B7b9 to Eminor part...

Thanks for this

Once I am comfortable with the arpeggios for each of the chords in at least one position, is the arpeggio meant to be played over/before the corresponding chord? (I know this is a VERY newbie question) - I've neved expiremented with arpeggios before.

target the thirds and sevenths - Does this mean start/end on the 3rd/7th note in that chord?

Thanks

[Vladan]

it's a challenge for those who played different all their lives, like for example I was. Playing from start and search where it will lead.
It seams Jazz iz a bit different. One possible view could be - You chose an end, and then play towards it.
So, 3ds and 7ths are more ending notes, than they're starting.
In parctice, you come to a point where you can play whatever, as long as you finish the phrase on strong chord note, like the 3rd.

[JazzGuitar]

I wouldn't stay completely in the diatonic scale, but use it as a guide. Find and use the color tones (flat 5, flat 9, sharp 5, sharp 9) where appropriate. Also use the chords as a guide and learn all positions and inversions. Work on playing the scale and arps in each of those chord positions. Finding all positions of F#m7b5 is the biggest challenge to me.

Next, play the song using all that you've learned ^ over and over. Chord melodies (voice leading), arps, scale fragments and octaves (Wes style). I like a little space when improvising to make phrasing more interesting.

Thanks for the reply

Also use the chords as a guide and learn all positions and inversions. Work on playing the scale and arps in each of those chord positions.

By this, do you mean take the chord, D7 for example > Learn the Chord shape in all positions on the fretboard, learn the scale (Which I'm assuming would be the D Major scale) & learn the Arpeggio which would be (D, F#, A, C) & learn all the positions on the fretboard for the arp?

Thanks

[bobby d]

Thanks for the reply


By this, do you mean take the chord, D7 for example > Learn the Chord shape in all positions on the fretboard, learn the scale (Which I'm assuming would be the D Major scale) & learn the Arpeggio which would be (D, F#, A, C) & learn all the positions on the fretboard for the arp?

Thanks

Yes, that D would be a dominate 7 (mixolydian) which has the same notes as G major, just in a different order. Of course learning all positions will take a lot of time, so don't get overwhelmed.

There are 3 basic inversions that you can use for each chord, although I tend to play most of Autumn Leaves around the 8th fret. The idea is: once you have the chord, play the corresponding scale without moving out of that position. This is what I've learned from Joe Pass vids, books and articles.

For example play D7 at the 5th position (fret), 7th position, and 10th position.

[mr. beaumont]

Thanks for this

Once I am comfortable with the arpeggios for each of the chords in at least one position, is the arpeggio meant to be played over/before the corresponding chord? (I know this is a VERY newbie question) - I've neved expiremented with arpeggios before.

target the thirds and sevenths - Does this mean start/end on the 3rd/7th note in that chord?

Thanks

Right...thirds and sevenths really define the chord...they're what makes it unique, so they're great targets to look for when starting out...after a while you just hear em.

Arpeggios are just a simplified road map...less info than a full scale, and directly tied to the chord...

[JazzGuitar]

Yes, that D would be a dominate 7 (mixolydian) which has the same notes as G major, just in a different order. Of course learning all positions will take a lot of time, so don't get overwhelmed.

There are 3 basic inversions that you can use for each chord, although I tend to play most of Autumn Leaves around the 8th fret. The idea is: once you have the chord, play the corresponding scale without moving out of that position. This is what I've learned from Joe Pass vids, books and articles.

For example play D7 at the 5th position (fret), 7th position, and 10th position.

Thanks.....Starting to click..

that D would be a dominate 7 (mixolydian) which has the same notes as G major, just in a different order

So because the song is written in G major, when talking about the 5th chord which is the Ddom7, we still play the Gmajor scale, just starting at the 5th note, which basically gives us the mixolydian mode.

Using this logic, is it safe to say that a safe way to improvise over the Am7 chord would be playing the Gmaj scale from the second note, producing the A Dorian mode.

Thanks

[JazzGuitar]

Right...thirds and sevenths really define the chord...they're what makes it unique, so they're great targets to look for when starting out...after a while you just hear em.

Arpeggios are just a simplified road map...less info than a full scale, and directly tied to the chord...

Thanks Jeff

Taking the GMaj7 chord, the notes that make the chord are: G, B, D, F#. So a decent method of improvising over this chord would be to play around with those notes, placing extra emphasis on the B and F#.

After starting this post, I've started playing around with the arpeggios, not sounding very musical yet but I think I'm getting there......slowly

Thanks

[mr. beaumont]

Well...yeah...but that's a lot of thinking. And starting your improv on the root of each chord is a snore.

What you will see though, is the thirds and sevenths of all of those chords are in that scale...

This still won't sound particularly jazzy though...

here's a video I made a long time ago about chord tone improvising--arpeggios. It might help.

[mr. beaumont]

And what the heck, here's the same concept actually using autumn leaves:

[JazzGuitar]

Well...yeah...but that's a lot of thinking. And starting your improv on the root of each chord is a snore.

What you will see though, is the thirds and sevenths of all of those chords are in that scale...

This still won't sound particularly jazzy though...

here's a video I made a long time ago about chord tone improvising--arpeggios. It might help.

Thanks

Something I've noticed, take for example the key of GMaj - All the chords that that are in that key are somehow made up of different combinations of the notes in that scale (G-A-B-C-D-E-F#). If that's the case then "click-moment"

And starting your improv on the root of each chord is a snore.

By this, do you mean that even though we are on the Cmaj7 chord, we are not musically/harmonically obligated to play the C Major scale or even the C Lydian mode or even start our arpeggio on the C note?

Thanks

[JazzGuitar]

Well...yeah...but that's a lot of thinking. And starting your improv on the root of each chord is a snore.

What you will see though, is the thirds and sevenths of all of those chords are in that scale...

This still won't sound particularly jazzy though...

here's a video I made a long time ago about chord tone improvising--arpeggios. It might help.

]here's a video I made a long time ago about chord tone improvising--arpeggios. It might help

Might help? Mr Beaumont, this is excellent. Really helped me a lot

I'm following the video, not yet getting the jazzy sound but will keep working on it.

Thanks

[TH]

If you can hold the guitar so your notes are all in front of you, you might not even have to be able to see them
David

For amusement purposes only. Don't try this at home:

[TOMMO]

Again great clips there, Jeff - good advice!

At JazzGuitar: Jazz guitar beginner here myself. I went that same route: first standard: Atumn Leaves and I followed some advice in the lessons section to start with arpeggios and connect these going from chord to chord (after learning to play the changes off course). Made it a point to play those staying in the same area of the fretboard and with changing positions as well. When I got to be comfortable doing that I started adding more notes from the appropriate scales and chromatic passing notes also until I was playing what at least to my ears sounded like a melody...