-
What's New--yes, I know they're a chromatic tone (Eb) there in bar 3 that I omitted that is vital. It's really an art more than a science, there are no real right answers, per se, and I figure I can incorporate that Eb by targeting both the E and the D, stepwise. But you're right, that Eb is vital, so maybe I will revise it again in Finale. Thanks for pointing that out.
Originally Posted by jster
-
04-08-2013 04:22 PM
-
Well, I don't know about targeting. What I am saying is that you competely left out the third bar. Bar 5 is clearly a whole note G, but you've got the whole note G at bar 4.
-
This is a great concept, and one that I'm working with a lot lately.
The only feedback I have is that your reductions are significantly more complicated than the kind of reduction that I've been learning about in my classical studies. The reductions that I've been taught and have worked with reduce a 32 bar melody to literally 3 or 4 notes, at most. They should be thought of as the notes that create the entire shape of the melody.
So, yeah, you'll get rid of pickup notes, chromatic passing tones, dissonant, and even consonant, passing tones, but you also can get rid of connecting phrases, repeated phrases, etc.
Usually when I get done with a reduction it's like a single falling series of semi and whole tones, or a short arc. Then you can analyze how to add all the other stuff back in as needed.
The Blue Moon reduction you posted is almost as complicated as the original melody itself.
-
According to Perricone's book on melody, "structural notes" are usually found on:
1) Notes on strong beats
2) Notes with longer time values
3) Pronounced anticipations or syncopations
4) Beginning note of a phrase
5) Ending note of a phrase
6) Highest note of a phrase
7) Lowest note of a phrase
Once you have settled on a set of "structural notes", you then want to look at the contours of individual phrases and also the contour of the whole thing keeping in mind the five basic shapes (ascending, descending, arch, inverted arch, stationary). Variety as always is good. A songwriter shouldn't have a series of all descending phrases for example.
-
The basic problem I see in jazz in terms of "line trajectory" is that, often the lines are too conjunctive, if one is not careful.
That's an excellent set of criteria, above, jster. ^^^^^ I'll incorporate it into my list of things to analyze.
-
Ecj - I'm really interested in that, would you be able to post an example, or point me to a link/method book etc. that does this approach? cheers Originally Posted by ecj
-
Now that I actually see what this form of melody reduction is... I don't dig it too much...
The melodies are too reduced, I feel. I see your example of Autumn Leaves, which is pretty much the thirds of the chord. Many tunes, such as Stella, which you did, have more interesting notes in their melodies, which you included, but in most cases, it's almost more efficient to just work on chord tones if you're going to reduce it to this amount.
When I first read your original post, I understood melody reduction as my example of Clifford Brown's opening phrase on Pent Up House, where he uses a variation on the melody, much simpler.
Might work for some, but if it's this reduced, I think it would work better for me to do chord tone exercises.
-
Yeah, I'm wondering about all this too. How many melodies are going to go out of the chord tones in interesting enough ways? If you pick up two or three notes on two or three bars, like the Monk tune, is that enough to animate a solo? But Autumn Leaves is probably the worst tune to look at. I guessed that it was going to be all chord tones. Supposedly, it is supposed to really help when you get a "complex Wayne Shorter tune". But aren't a lot of his lead sheets going to have chords with multiple extensions indicated, giving you a bunch of chord tones to work with? Originally Posted by jtizzle
Maybe somebody can say more about Ed's method. I think there is also a rhythmic component derived from the melody.
-
Well, that's actually the most important stuff, actually. There's a whole series of rhythmic permeations that is applied to the material. This thread is just about the first initial part-- and the idea of improvising through the melody. this is just the first step, to see what kind of initial raw materials you may have to work with, to start. I guess it's a pool of notes, a PITCH COLLECTION, as opposed to a scale. Originally Posted by jster
The rhythmic part is beyond the scope of this thread. You should probably send him an email through his website. He's friendly enough and will respond.
Anyway, I'm more interested in learning how to reduce a composition to its essential melodic aspects. And then building from there.
-
Excuse me, but how can you get less out of more?
I understand that the framework is arpeggios.
but if you break down the melodey into a few notes then how can you get more from less?
-
Excellent post NSJ!!!
Thank you so much for this vid 3625, this just clarify my mind with a new approach!!! Originally Posted by 3625
-
Also, I spent this time looking for this, because I knew this system sounded familiar.
It's pretty much Schenkerian analysis for jazz.
Read up, fellas! Schenkerian analysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
-
I agree with NSJ that the melody reductions (like the Autumn Leaves one) are just the start. It's true certain tunes will mainly have guide tones, like Autumn and All The Things whereas Stella is cool because it has upper extensions.
But there's tons of ways to look at it - like forming motifs off of phrases in the melody etc. plus I think some songs are much better suited to this approach than others. It's like Monk wrote his compositions with catchy little melodic cells that could be used to great effect during the improvisation. Check out Charlie Rouse on Green Chimneys (yeah!) -
Jtizzle - thanks for pointing out Schenkerian analysis, I'll look into it, cheers
-
Free Jazz Institute site is still up and Ed's work on Linear Jazz Improvisation has its own page. The whole FJI site is a goldmine and great resource. Originally Posted by NSJ
Ed's page -
FreeJazzInstitute -Last edited by cosmic gumbo; 04-09-2013 at 02:38 AM.
-
Reduced melodies are a tool to help visualize the main structural notes of a melody. It should be a reduction based on the way each individual hears the melody although there is bound to be some overlap between versions.
If a reduction seems too stripped down then add the important notes that you believe to be missing.
If it's seems to busy then edit it as you hear it.
Working from a reduced melody allows one to expand in more directions while still referencing the essential info as does a harmonic or rhythmic reduction. What are the important chordal signposts in a progression, what are the important accents that create the character of a rhythm.
The fewer appointments one feels compelled to keep along the way the more varied is the journey while remaining connected to the melody. Guitarist Sten Hostfalt who did some studying with Lee Konitz told me to also create an upper and lower harmony to the melody reduction as another layer of musical info to work off of.
-
I was going to mention this. Ed Byrne says that it's up to the individual to decide how to reduce the melody. Originally Posted by bako
I have his linear jazz book. The exact quote from the book is:
"The process of Melody Reduction is somewhat subjective; it is not an exact science. Slight differences in interpretation will make little difference in the end result. If you leave a note in or take a few more out than someone else, no harm is done, since the very process of your deciding which notes are essential is what is important. Our aim in this reduction stage is to identify the most essential melody notes in the simplest rhythmic form possible. This is essential to the internalization process."
-
The Complete Musician: An Integrated Approach to Tonal Theory, Analysis, and Listening: Steven G. Laitz: 9780199742783: Amazon.com: Books Originally Posted by 3625
I've been slowly working through this book. I can't recommend it highly enough.
The real benefit of reduction is to come up with the "essence" of the tune. You don't just reduce and then play the reduction, although I guess you could. You reduce and then re-elaborate it using different techniques.
It's a good way to start coming up with soloing concepts for tunes that are different than just the standard paint-by-numbers approach where you throw in the patterns you know over the harmonies you know. It's been a fun way to try to take my soloing to a different level than just simple lick regurgitation.
-
Originally Posted by ecj
Whoah. That text book is like 900 pages! That may even give v. Eps' Harmonic Mechanisms book a run for its money.
I just ordered a like new copy from Amazon. Thanks for recommending it.
-
Just play the melody over the chords a bunch and start adding and subtracting notes, etc. Use any other knowledge you have in combination with it like scales, arps, chords, what have you.
Call it what you will. Make up a high-falutin, mystical name for it if you like, i.e. "The Multi-Melodian-Notadian-Tonalalism Method of Jazz Improvisation"
But really just play the melody over (and over and over) the progression and experiment. Be musical (which means make it sound good). Practice in different keys. Learn lots of tunes.
That's really all there is to it and that is not said to belittle this idea. Simple idea that works if practiced a lot. Simple is genius.
The problem with 900 page jazz instructional manuals is the 900 pages. Spend 5 years going through 900 pages...or learn a bunch of tunes by learning the progressions, melodies, etc. and jamming over the tunes with basics. Let me ask you, which will move you closer to being able to play jazz? How do you learn to talk? By reading a 900 page manual of English or by immersion in the language? Immersion is the proven method of learning a language.Last edited by Drumbler; 04-09-2013 at 05:29 PM.
-
It's a lot more than just reductions. You're getting a full course on common practice period harmony, melodic embellishment, compositions structures, etc. Really nice stuff. Originally Posted by NSJ
Whoah. That text book is like 900 pages! That may even give v. Eps' Harmonic Mechanisms book a run for its money. I just ordered a like new copy from Amazon. Thanks for recommending it.
The work book is a great intro into ear training and basic functional piano skills, too.
Hope you have fun with it! I try to do one section a week during my lunch break.
-
Originally Posted by Drumbler
Still, I think a lot of people got an interest in music in general, and not only jazz. And like to study it more in depth.
But I totally agree that sometimes its too much reading, and less playing. Ive been in that ditch.
-
The way to reduce the melody (taken from my book, Volume 6) is as follows:
* remove all melody tones except those that fall on the downbeat or anticipation of the beat. That gives you the "reduced melody."
The way to improvise on it is to use each chord's Emphasis Tones in order to build an improvisation around the reduced melody tones. The emphasis tones are the tones that do not alter the harmony of the chord, which means the basic chord tones + allowed tensions (varies from chord to chord.)
Following that procedure on any song, is an excellent way for someone to learn how to improvise, to learn a song thoroughly, and as a springboard for further improvisation. People new to improvising will take away much, much more for that simple process than from any other method, especially reading through lengthy music theory books.
--
Michael Martinez
Music Educator
Michael's Music Page
Reply With Quote
Acoustic Image Clarus 2R Series III
Today, 12:57 PM in For Sale