Want to Buy: Ibanez PM20

[chris32895]

After picking up my PM35 model a little over a month ago I've been really lusting after a PM20 model. Seeing what's out there and hopefully someone here can point me out to one that is available. Would prefer natural finish but transparent black I would entertain. Located in CONUS.

[arnie65]

Here's one of Reverb, make them an offer....


Ibanez PM20 Pat Metheny Signature 1998 with Mcnelly Pickup | Reverb


Cheers,
Arnie...

[chris32895]

Ok, so I was actually in the process of coordinating sale of this PM20 with the seller. However, I backed out because the body shape is different from other PM20s I've seen.
The PM20s I've seen look just like the PM200 but with Daquisto style f holes and the wire tailpiece. This one has a slimmer upper horn, shallower cutaway, and narrower waist. The body mold is similar in my opinion to an Epi Joe Pass.
Upon some more research I've seen a couple other PM20s that look similar. Because of that I'm still looking.
I'm sure it's still a great instrument but it's not "the" PM20 which is what I want.

[jazzshrink]

Ok, so I was actually in the process of coordinating sale of this PM20 with the seller. However, I backed out because the body shape is different from other PM20s I've seen. The PM20s I've seen look just like the PM200 but with Daquisto style f holes and the wire tailpiece. This one has a slimmer upper horn, shallower cutaway, and narrower waist. The body mold is similar in my opinion to an Epi Joe Pass. Upon some more research I've seen a couple other PM20s that look similar. Because of that I'm still looking. I'm sure it's still a great instrument but it's not "the" PM20 which is what I want.

Would you please upload some of those pictures (or links)? Your story really piqued my interest (I love a good mystery). Thanks, Chris.

[chris32895]

Would you please upload some of those pictures (or links)? Your story really piqued my interest (I love a good mystery). Thanks, Chris.

Here's the PM20 in question:

Ibanez PM20 Pat Metheny Signature 1998 with Mcnelly Pickup | Reverb

It's super clean and I wish I wasn't such a cork sniffer sometimes but it doesn't look like any other PM20 I've seen. It threw me off and I didn't catch it at first. I'm just not positive that if I bought it I wouldn't still be looking for "real" PM20s.

It's also a shame because I bought a different PM model from this exact seller and he's probably the absolute best seller on Reverb I've encountered, seriously.

[jazzshrink]

Sorry I wasn't more clear in my request. You stated: "The PM20s I've seen look just like the PM200 but with Daquisto style f holes and the wire tailpiece" and "Upon some more research I've seen a couple other PM20s that look similar." What I was hoping to see are pictures of these "PM200-looking" PM20s you mention. Thanks again.

[chris32895]

OK, so here's a PM200:


And here's a PM20:


Minus the hardware (namely the wire tailpiece) and the f-holes, I think the body shape/silhouette between the two are very, very similar. Fat upper horn and most importantly a deep cutaway for nice upper fret access.

This is what the PM20 looks like in the linked listing. Note the thinner upper horn, less upper fret access, and thinner waist:


Maybe I'm crazy, I don't know. I think the first PM20 I posted looks an awful lot like a PM200 and exhibits classic, Ibanez archtop styling while the second one does not.

[jazzshrink]

When you say "thinner", are you talking about the depth of the box? I see that the PM200 is ½" deeper than the PM20 (perhaps more so at the tail). I do see the difference in the cutaway, and if the upper register is important to you, I can see why you might prefer the PM20.

...Maybe I'm crazy, I don't know...

I'm retired, so you won't hear an opinion from me.

[arnie65]

My friend, you have an "eagle eye", after carefully looking at it and looking at videos of the PM20, I see some differences, like the placing of the F holes etc... This is probably a Chinese copy, the original PM20 was made in Korea and it was a quality made instrument. Good catch!


Cheers,
Arnold

[Brian859]

This one on GC used looks like the one you are looking for I think, but unfortunately in black.

https://<br /> www.guitarcenter.com...tric-Guitar.gc

[chris32895]

When you say "thinner", are you talking about the depth of the box? I see that the PM200 is ½" deeper than the PM20 (perhaps more so at the tail). I do see the difference in the cutaway, and if the upper register is important to you, I can see why you might prefer the PM20.


I'm retired, so you won't hear an opinion from me.

When I say thinner, I do not mean the depth of the instrument (the PM200 and PM20 should have the same depth at the rim) but the waist, i.e. the narrower section of the instrument (when viewing from the front) between the upper and lower bout. The 2nd example I gave has a thinner waist.

The upper register access is important to me and the driving factor to me wanting a PM20 like the 1st picture.

[chris32895]

My friend, you have an "eagle eye", after carefully looking at it and looking at videos of the PM20, I see some differences, like the placing of the F holes etc...
This is probably a Chinese copy, the original PM20 was made in Korea and it was a quality made instrument. Good catch!


Cheers,
Arnold

Thanks, it's very subtle but I know they are different. I don't think it's a Chinese copy, I just think for some PM20's they used the same body molds as the Epi Joe Pass, which was made in Korea at the time. The body shapes are identical! I would still think the PM20 in the linked Reverb listing is a quality instrument, just not exactly what I want.

[chris32895]

This one on GC used looks like the one you are looking for I think, but unfortunately in black.

https://
www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Ibanez/PM20-Pat-Metheny-Signature-Hollow-Body-Electric-Guitar.gc

Yes I've seen that one, too, but as you've said it's black and I would prefer natural. The price is also in my opinion a little too high. If it was cheaper I wouldn't scoff at it. Never owned a black archtop guitar before.

[Brian859]

Yes I've seen that one, too, but as you've said it's black and I would prefer natural. The price is also in my opinion a little too high. If it was cheaper I wouldn't scoff at it. Never owned a black archtop guitar before.

I agree. The pricing on that one is out of wack and I don't think they will be able to bring it back in line with the typical GC price decreases either.

[chris32895]

I agree. The pricing on that one is out of wack and I don't think they will be able to bring it back in line with the typical GC price decreases either.

Yea sometimes if something sits around for a long time they will cut the price quite a bit. There was an Epi Zephyr Regent that I saw at GC that was $900 or around about there and after a while I saw it dropped to $499. If they dropped it to below a grand I would maybe consider it.

[Brian859]

I think they have that 90 period before they can drop it. That guitar has been on there for a long while. I called on a couple guitars that were over priced and the person on the phone looked up how long it had been listed. Maybe check and make an offer. But its still not a blonde though. I just remembered I had called on an Ibanez ss300 hollow body similar to the sj300 up on there now. The ss300 had been listed for 8 months with no price drop. Finally got the manager on the phone and came clean and said soneone screwed up on the trade in price and they couldnt lower it. So theres that too.

[arnie65]

Thanks, it's very subtle but I know they are different. I don't think it's a Chinese copy, I just think for some PM20's they used the same body molds as the Epi Joe Pass, which was made in Korea at the time. The body shapes are identical! I would still think the PM20 in the linked Reverb listing is a quality instrument, just not exactly what I want.

Could be true, I was just stating an opinion, it's hard when you don't have the guitar in front of you, but I definitely see some differences, even the knobs on that guitar are the old style Ibanez knobs, which never were on the original PM20 model. It could also be a mistake made by the company; as far as the quality of the instrument, I wouldn't really know unless I had it in front of me and was able to look at it and play it... I know for sure that the original PM20's were very nice guitars for the price.


Cheers,
Arnold

[jim777]

Not to derail you Chris, but there is the new Metheny model with the CC pickup coming this summer if your search continues that long.
Ibanez working on new Metheny model with CC?

[chris32895]

Not to derail you Chris, but there is the new Metheny model with the CC pickup coming this summer if your search continues that long.
Ibanez working on new Metheny model with CC?

I may be interested in that, we will see. It's definitely exciting. Would need to get my hands on one when they are out

[chris32895]

So, a little update on this. I did find one that popped up on eBay overnight, shipped from Canada. This is the one in the configuration I wanted but interestingly there is no inlay that says "Pat Metheny" and the label on the inside is missing, hmm. The seller says it came off some years ago.


Also, I messaged asking about the neck depth and it is just as thin as my PM35 (20.38mm @ 1st, 23.54mm @ 9th)! That, along with a high price ($1500) has led to me passing. I suppose I am being picky, but it's my money I am spending! I will hold out for one with a thicker neck, if that exists. I am not really dissatisfied with my PM35, just looking for my 'ideal'. I also got my PM35 for dirt cheap, so it's hard to justify too much more money for an upgrade.

Here's a link if anyone else wants it, it looks to be in very good condition! Nice seller, too.
SUPERB Ibanez PM20 Pat Metheny! W/PU+Original Hard Case! FREE SHIPPING!!! | eBay

[jazzshrink]

Personally, I don't like the grain pattern chosen for the top. I'm a sucker for symmetry.