OT - Splitting an antenna for tv and fm?

[Woody Sound]

Folks, I know this is fringe material for this group, but I am hoping some of you are knowledgeable on this matter, and it does involve electronics and listening to jazz guitar, so...

I have a 75 Ohm Coax antenna in my attic for pulling in free digital channels on two lesser used tv's in my one story + basement home. The signal is split between the two tv's with a simple cable splitter.

I've read here and there that a tv antenna will work fine for fm radio. In fact, in my old house I had a rooftop tv antenna that I used for fm, and it worked well.

We are near the bottom of escarpment, so fm reception is not great. I am wondering if I can piggyback off of the tv coax cable, to connect my two fm receivers, one of which is in the main enterainment room, and the other in the music studio in the basement.

I've read the the more times you split a 75 Ohm Cox cable, the more the signal degrades. But is that still the fact if you are only running to one device at a time?

Thanks for any advice or info. I'd love to be able to pull in Toronto Jazz FM in the music studio.

WS

[sgosnell]

The FM radio frequency band is between channels 6 and 7. Any antenna that works on VHF TV will work with FM radio. There are splitters available with built-in amplifier sections. Splitting does degrade the signal somewhat, but not all that much. I would try a passive splitter, and if it doesn't work well enough, get one with an amplifier. They're cheap enough. You can also get a separate antenna amplifier box. They're not used so much these days with digital TV, but they used to be common. Many of the current TV external antennas, especially those sold for fringe area viewing, have an amplifier built into the connecting coax cable. In your case, I would look for an antenna amplifier with multiple outputs. You may need transformers for the FM receivers, since most I've seen use 300 ohm antenna connections, not coax, but I haven't looked at those recently, so perhaps you have 75 ohm coax inputs. If so, you're better off.

Or you could just stream it via the internet. I haven't turned on an actual FM radio in years. My wife sometimes listens in her car, but I never bother. I stream music from my phone using Android Auto. At home I use a streaming amp or a computer, getting local stations, New Orleans jazz stations, whatever, at the push of a button or tap on the phone. But it's your choice.

[RJVB]

Or you could just stream it via the internet. I haven't turned on an actual FM radio in years.

++.

Any station worth listening on a regular basis to seems to stream nowadays - I have a hunch that's actually cheaper/easier for them than running an emitter. Sometimes I'll tune in to a local station at home, and I do use my car radio because I refuse to increase my phone bill to listen to music. Old iPhones connected to WiFi and a hifi system are great for streaming i-radio because you can still find the accessories to get at their line-level output but getting the right apps onto them may be a challenge.

I'm a bit surprised you still have analog TV broadcasts in the US, I wouldn't be surprised if TV is set to become something you get via your ISP (via a special decoder or simply via "replay") in a near future, over here.

[sgosnell]

OTA TV is digital, and has been for some time. But the frequencies are the same, and the same antennas still work. Maintaining a transmitter is expensive, but without one the license would be lost, at least here, and tradition dies hard. The license, which buys use of a frequency band, has already been paid for, as has the transmitter, so abandoning it isn't something that's economically attractive. Lots of people want to listen/view OTA transmissions because it doesn't require much in the way of hardware.

My phone plan, and most plans here now, include unlimited data, so streaming doesn't increase the cost. I get unlimited data, voice, and text messages for a flat rate, on a family plan that includes 8 phones. The biggest attraction is that I can listen to what I like, not just what someone at the radio station decides to play. YMMV. Then there is satellite radio. I used to subscribe to it, and all new cars come with a trial subscription. I get a regular email telling me that my trial has been extended for another 30 days, wanting me to buy a subscription, but to me it's not worth half what they charge. I would only listen to one station for a few minutes a day, and that one station isn't that interesting anyway. I don't spend enough time in a car to make it worthwhile, even if it were free. I once had long commutes to work, but those days are long behind me.

I do understand that not everyone is in my situation, probably few are, and some want to use older hardware already on hand. I have no issue with anyone else doing whatever they prefer. That's why I answered the OP, even though I don't use his method of listening. Receiving OTA FM radio is easy enough if one has a decent receiver and antenna, perhaps with an antenna amplifier.

[Woody Sound]

OP here. Thanks for all your educated input, I appreciate it. I have hard wired ethernet to the Mac in the basement music studio, will probably try the streaming route for FM there.

But in our first floor "entertainment center" I am clinging to my old school 60" Toshiba "not smart" tv. Doesn't even have hdmi. It was the last of the tv's before the flat panels. They only had two left, practically gave it to me. The picture is gloriously & beautifully soft, like in a movie theater.

[sgosnell]

I would recommend an amp. Antenna amplifiers generally go at or near the antenna, but can be installed nearer the TV if necessary. Simple splitters might work, and that's the quickest and cheapest thing to try, and that might be enough. If the signal gets too weak for the TV, you can remove the one for the FM and reassess.

Something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/32579627104...Cclp%3A4429486, which has variable gain and incorporates a splitter, with two outputs. There are several other types available for different prices, inline if you want cheap, etc.

[Woody Sound]

I would recommend an amp. Antenna amplifiers generally go at or near the antenna, but can be installed nearer the TV if necessary. Simple splitters might work, and that's the quickest and cheapest thing to try, and that might be enough. If the signal gets too weak for the TV, you can remove the one for the FM and reassess.

Something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/32579627104...Cclp%3A4429486, which has variable gain and incorporates a splitter, with two outputs. There are several other types available for different prices, inline if you want cheap, etc.

Thank you!

[rlrhett]

My daughter just asked me what FM is. I told her that in the dark ages people could only listen to what someone they didn't know called a "DJ" was paid to stream to you. There were only about half a dozen such "stations" you could listen to. Otherwise you bought "albums" which had three good songs and ten bad ones from the same artist; and you could only play them at home or in your car.

I lost her at DJ. "So, you could only listen to EDM? That's lame."

[RJVB]

I lost her at DJ.

Of course, for her a DJ is probably some influencer-style guy or gal (or should I say "bro" or dude as both seem to be unisex these days?) fiddling with something that looks like a 2 hub stovetop out of StarTrek while doing a kind of Masai hopping exercise...

And did you leave out the cassette culture for fear she might start sharing illegal copies with her friends?

I have fond memories of those old days, where I knew exactly which evenings had the good programmes where I'd be ready with 1 or 2 tapes; the rest of the week I'd take down my own deck to my parents' stereo during my free time, to make my own compilations and "mixes". I've kept a few of those but threw out a whole pile a few years back only because I knew I wouldn't be listening to them anymore.

[sgosnell]

For most of the years while I was growing up there was only AM radio. Even after FM became a thing, we couldn't listen to it because we were too far from any stations. It was only after I was in college that I could listen to FM, because there were stations in the big city of Lubbock. But AM frequencies could reflect off the troposphere, and I could get stations from far away at night. I got Chicago, St Louis, New Orleans, Tulsa, Shreveport, and many others, plus the Mexican stations, of course. AM stations in the US were limited in power by the FCC, but on the south bank of the Rio Grande there was no limit, the 100,000 watt stations were legal, and the river didn't block the signals at all.

[Woody Sound]

My daughter just asked me what FM is. I told her that in the dark ages people could only listen to what someone they didn't know called a "DJ" was paid to stream to you. There were only about half a dozen such "stations" you could listen to. Otherwise you bought "albums" which had three good songs and ten bad ones from the same artist; and you could only play them at home or in your car.

I lost her at DJ. "So, you could only listen to EDM? That's lame."

For her next birthday, give her a few of those little 45rpm spindle adapters. I believe the very first ones were metal, and would often crack the records trying to insert or remove them. The flexible plastic versions solved that problem.

[sgosnell]

My Pioneer turntable came with an adapter, I think it might be around somewhere. I also have one of the flexible ones in the one 45rpm record I still have, recorded and written by one of my father's cousins back in the stone age.

[KirkP]

If the signal is too weak for your TV it’s likely to be too weak for an amplifier. So it’s much better to put the amplifier near the antenna before the coax and splitter losses.

[sgosnell]

Yes, the amplifier is best at the antenna. I remember in my youth, installing amplifiers on 20-foot-long Jerrold antennas mounted on top of 100-foot high towers. What fun that was. But it was lucrative, because I made a minimum of $5 for the climb, plus more than a dollar an hour. In the 1960s that was big money for me. But it's not always practical nor economic to put the amplifier at the antenna, so it can be done closer to the receiver if necessary. Many modern digital TV antennas have amplifiers built in, and they're usually closer to the receiver because power is usually easily available there, and it's much harder to run power to the actual antenna. It can be done, but it's more work and (usually) expense. Any amplifier is better than none, usually, but not always.

[Woody Sound]

If the signal is too weak for your TV it’s likely to be too weak for an amplifier. So it’s much better to put the amplifier near the antenna before the coax and splitter losses.

Thanks, but actually the two TV's work great with the bare antenna and one split, no amp. But I still my take your advice and put the amp close to the antenna.