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I often use iReal Pro in jams or casual performances. I find it much easier to read a chord chart with four measures per line than a fake books, and if I know the head well enough to fake it I don’t need it written out. I don’t take the default iReal Pro charts as gospel—I’ll often edit them to correct errors or simplify. I try to memorize changes or hear them on the fly, but peeking at a chord chart occasionally helps keep me on track. I feel I play more creatively when I use a chord chart rather than a lead sheet.
But an acquaintance finds my preference to be an abomination and claims that nobody does that, and no one wants to play with someone who does that. So at risk of being told I’m an idiot, I’d like to know what others think of using iReal Pro or similar chord charts in jams or on the bandstand. Would you object to a jam partner or bandmate using iReal Pro when playing with you?
In my case the obvious solution is to find another jam partner, but I’m still interested in what others think.
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02-18-2023 06:17 PM
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I wouldn't be concerned about it. Someone who scoffs at you using charts will just find something else to scoff at if you didn't have them.
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There are some specific problems that a chord chart solves for me. I'm very old and "know" a few thousand tunes. But if I haven't played them for years, I often forget little things like which bridge goes with which tune. And there are tunes with bridge modulations that you just have to know - there's no way to intuitively make the change. The bridges to tunes like The Way You Look Tonight and At Last are beautiful to hear and fun to play. But if I've forgotten the interval to the first chord in the bridge, I'm stuck. And missing a change like that while backing a vocalist is embarassing beyond belief.
A chord chart keeps me honest. When I need it, I just look at it before we start a tune that I know I don't remember perfectly. And the right changes come back to me as soon as I see the first one. But without that prompt, I occasionally find myself laying out on the first go-round while I hunt to find the right one. On the other hand, having a chord chart in front of me is more often confusing than helpful when I know the tune well, especially if I'm transposing on the fly. I either use changes I know work well with what's being played or follow the rest of the band by ear if they're using different ones. But iReal charts are often either wrong or rudimentary enough to mess that up. So I only actually follow them when it's a tune I simply never heard before - and I do so very cautiously.
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By the way, I’m an amateur just playing for enjoyment, not representing myself as anything else, and not expecting any more of my jam partners. If it were a gig and the band leader didn’t like iReal I wouldn’t use it. But if it’s a casual jam, judge me by my playing, not what book I use. I’ve also seen pros jam, rehearse, and perform using iReal Pro. I was under the impression it’s pretty common.
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I also see it in gigs all the time, even if it's just for marking setlists, or making sure everyone plays the same changes. The only drawback i can think of is that many of the official tune charts either have mistakes or have some uncommon chord choices in them, so if it's tunes I don't know I always check them before hand if possible.
Just the convenience of having a choice of pre made setlists to choose from in hotel and restaurant gigs is worth it. And you just need your phone. I know hundreds of tunes, but with the Ireal I can pretty much play thousands, transpose unfamiliar songs on the fly for singers, play tunes I haven't played for years, etc.
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A few weeks ago I was in a jam session with fairly well known jazz guitarist from NYC. Of course he didn’t need a chart at all for common tunes, but if someone called a tune he was fuzzy on he’d bring it up in iReal Pro. He had left one tune in a nonstandard key from a previous performance, but that was a trivial fix—no big deal.
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I use iReal Pro in jam sessions for the reasons noted above, and I also play just for fun. And have charts on hand if some one calls I tune I don’t know well so I can look at the melody before count in. Some of these sessions are frequented by singers, so iRP really streamlines transposing.
In the circles I play in, there is no stigma to using iRP or charts, and participants range from pros to beginners. Just last week a great pianist called “Black Nile,” so out came the apps and charts; she had a blast and we knew enough to stay out of her while still being able to play. The shared factor in this scene (we’re in Japan) seems to be love of jazz and passing the tradition on to others in a supportive social setting.
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I am an advanced amateur, meaning that I can hold my own with professional players at least for a couple of numbers. When I play with friends who are on a similar level, we all use iReal and airdrop tunes to each other. I have seen professional players using iReal for unfamiliar tunes, and also at sessions.
Disclaimer: there is no live music scene here in Germany in the way there is in the US. People who earn their money from music play in cover bands. No idea whether they expect you to play everything without charts at short notice, but from what I have seen their shows are thoroughly planned.
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I mean Rosenwinkel was using charts in his just completed gig with Bernstein. No shame in using charts. Obviously don’t use em for Autumn Leaves
The only faux pas about iReal: don’t use it as actual backing tracks in a performance. YIKES.
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The bass voice in iReal might be acceptable as a backing track for background music gig (e.g., wine bar), but the other voices sound too mechanical. I use the bass voice for practice but I never seriously considered performing with it.
Originally Posted by NSJ
Backing tracks weren’t the issue in the incident that led to this thread. What actual set it off was the person showed up for a couple of informal jams, others were using iReal, and he seemed to expect anyone who called a tune to supply a full lead sheet in the correct key. In every jam I’ve participated in if you need a chart you bring your own or share someone else’s, and if you don’t know the head well enough to fake it you let someone else take it. If you don’t know the tune at all, lay out and listen. No one has objected until this person decided to make a drama of it. So I wanted to know if jams don’t work that way in the rest of the world.Last edited by KirkP; 02-19-2023 at 07:38 PM.
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The guy I jam with said I can call anything from Real Book I and II otherwise I need to supply a sheet. Communication is key. See if he wants to set some similar ground rule.
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For basic chord charts to remind me of the changes I prefer Ralph Patt’s “vanilla book” to iReal.
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That’s exactly what he wants. But he won’t accept ”how about we play something you know instead” as a response. Instead he wants others in a jam to supply lead sheet for any tunes they call. Perhaps it’s a result of previous classical training. I don’t think that’s how most jazz jams work. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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I learned a lot from reading Ralph Patt’s description of his method, but as I recall he said it’s the process of creating the vanilla charts that’s the most benefit, not the charts themselves. When I’m studying a standard I’ll sometimes refer to his Vanilla charts as a reference point, but many of them are distilled a little too much for me to perform from. Ralph Patt’s Vanilla charts would be a good topic to explore in a separate thread. Originally Posted by pcjazz
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It sounds like this guy doesn’t have an ear, which is understandable, but also doesn’t have a book/app or even a good attitude. I’d drop him from the plans next time. Don’t let all this negativity into your jam. Originally Posted by KirkP
It’s just laziness to not have charts but demand them from others.
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Thank for the responses, folks. They have helped me get this incident off my mind and move on.
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I know this is an older thread. With the guys I play with regularly, I know all of the tunes without charts for gigs. We have a list of 50 or so tunes that we draw from. If they want to add new ones, I learn them before the gig. For the jam I sometimes go to, it's different. It is almost always with horn players playing the head, and I don't get to call any tunes. For that scenario, I use Ireal and a little selfie stand. I have heard all of the tunes that get called, but some I have never played or haven't played in many years. I would rather use Ireal than risk making mistakes. My sense is that Ireal is preferable to sitting out at that jam. I know the leader is cool with it because I asked first.
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Can’t imagine playing with a singer without a chord chart…..big fan of iReal.
The last time I played with a singer, she sent me an iReal set list with 200 tunes. And of course they were not aleays in the original key.
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Use iReal all the time. Jams and performance. Great app.
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I'm more dependent on charts than I should be.
It's a chronic problem and I'm not going to solve it one night.
So, it's IRealPro for me -- and I like it that everyone else who doesn't know the tune is probably going to be looking at the same chord chart I am.
If I don't know the tune at all, I can deal with IReal, but I'd rather have a lead sheet. That said, having a chord chart in my pocket for just about any tune is amazingly great.
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No worries.
it’s what you play that is important, not what you are mk'reading.
Just do the work and make those charts your own.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Wish we could have both. iReal functionality combined with lead sheet in some genius inspired integration on screen.
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Just keep in mind that there are multiple iReal charts for many tunes, and they can differ greatly from each other. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
These are made and contributed by users. The levels of detail and accuracy vary greatly. So be sure everyone’s using the exact same chart. There are a lot of weird changes in some iReal sheets.
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I am 56. That's the way I was until maybe 15 years ago. Everyone I played with always used charts, so I did the same. Then I think it was my membership in Jimmy Bruno's original JBGI that started to get me away from that. Now I know a decent number of tunes, but I want to get up around 200 at least, so I am still working on it. I am always learning a new tune as part of my practice routine. To be honest, I don't really know why I am doing it. I have enough tunes to get through many hours of gigs now. Other than that's what we are "supposed" to try to do, I am not sure why I am doing it. I can't tell any difference at all in my playing when I am using a chart versus not using one and neither can anyone I play with (or at least that's what they tell me). I have a good friend who gigs multiple nights per week as a side person, and she tells me she has to rely on ireal a lot because on the gigs she gets called for, they call a lot of obscure tunes (and she probably does know 250 tunes without charts). When I watch the live feeds from Smalls and Mezzrow, I see a lot of charts. I know these may be for arrangements or original tunes, but still, those are world-class jazz clubs and people are using charts. Other than some social rule in some circles, I have a hard time figuring out how much it truly affects the important thing, i.e., how does it sound? I have seen killer players using charts for standards before, and I have seen players whose playing I really don't like playing without charts. I guess like most things in life there are many shades of gray. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Sent from my SM-S918U using TapatalkLast edited by Rick5; 10-11-2023 at 09:06 AM.
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I use mine regularly. I have started working with a singer, who tends toward 70's RNB, and the other app that's invaluable is Tabs (Ultimate Guitar Tabs).
I have or at least had a good memory--did a psych experiment in college and was in 95+ percentile. And of course memorizing all those facts and equations in med school...
But my memory for songs is decent but not incredible. And there's nothing worse than losing one's place in a song, even if you know it well.
The thing with the pop songs is they often have unusual structures--bridge repeats in weird places, half chorus instead of full chorus, etc. (Check out Time After Time for instance.) I'm sure if someone wrote the song and played it 300 nights a year, not a problem. But for me...
Anyway, I see a lot of pros with lead sheets or whatever. Didn't notice them with some of the really top-notch bands I've seen recently like Tedeschi-Trucks and Marty Stuart. But when I saw Lucinda Williams a few years ago, she had a thick notebook with lyrics she used for every single song. I guess if you've written as many as she has, remembering every single word can be a challenge. Don't know how Dylan does it.
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