Drum Genius for Android / iOS

**jimraygilliam** · 11-17-2017, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

Plenty of great players with fabulous time including Adam Rogers do lots of practicing to recorded tracks. In the modern world, there just isn't the ability to jam every night with the best players in the world like there was in the '50s and '60s so you have to use every opportunity you can to work on your time and improvisation in general.

And in terms of playing and interacting with the rhythm section, i get that and while I agree, there are plenty of examples of fabulous solos that were recorded separately from the rhythm section. There was a video floating around on youtube (couldn't find the link) of Mike Brecker recording his solo over a tune where he was essentially playing over the rhythm section as a backing track and it was an amazing solo and nobody would ever know he didn't record it live and in the room with the band.

I mean, obviously nothing beats playing with a great rhythm section but let's be honest. Playing with a terrible rhythm section is not necessarily ideal either...

Don't let the level of absolutes outweighs common sense...

Good commentary especially the last sentence.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**JensL** · 11-17-2017, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

Plenty of great players with fabulous time including Adam Rogers do lots of practicing to recorded tracks. In the modern world, there just isn't the ability to jam every night with the best players in the world like there was in the '50s and '60s so you have to use every opportunity you can to work on your time and improvisation in general.

And in terms of playing and interacting with the rhythm section, i get that and while I agree, there are plenty of examples of fabulous solos that were recorded separately from the rhythm section. There was a video floating around on youtube (couldn't find the link) of Mike Brecker recording his solo over a tune where he was essentially playing over the rhythm section as a backing track and it was an amazing solo and nobody would ever know he didn't record it live and in the room with the band.

I mean, obviously nothing beats playing with a great rhythm section but let's be honest. Playing with a terrible rhythm section is not necessarily ideal either...

Don't let the level of absolutes outweighs common sense...

Actually playing with a band is not going to necessarily help you improve your time. I don't understand why people think that it should? There are plenty of people who gig a lot and have terrible time..

The video is quite specifically about timing, the ability to precisely play in time and feel subdivision. Which is not really about any of the things you are talking about

I never say that backing tracks are all bad, except that for timing it is probably not going to help you. (Well actually it is also not good for your ear-training and ability to feel form, but.. I don't really go into that

)

I use backing tracks myself, but not for the things that they do well, and I try not to be blind about what they don't do well.

Look at the statistics here: If backing tracks are so great for timing then why does 99% of the people uploading themselves playing over backing tracks have so horrible time?

Nobody send me a video saying "Here! Look at this, I can do the dotted quarter note or 2nd triplet metronome exercises in you video and I only practiced with backing tracks!" It's not like those exercises are that difficult..

Jens

**JensL** · 11-17-2017, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Gabor

1) How to practice and develop your "time-sense"

Strongly agree with you.

2) Are backing tracks good or not

Here I strongly disagree with you, and I really think that statement "backing tracks are bad habit, or not useful" is false.

3) Do people know how their time-sense

I just shortened you post, I hope that is ok.

2. I think that there are many things that you don't train with a backing track, but as the title (overstated as it is

) says: This is about timing and rhythm. I even talk about what is good about backing tracks and mention interaction and locking in with a groove....

Ironically the fact that so many people almost ONLY play with backing tracks makes the title true even if I meant to make it extreme.

3. You have to see that in the context of the backing track, because it is much harder to tell how precise you are if you are playing with a full track compared to playing with a click. In that sense this is not a sepparate topic.

Jens

**m_d** · 11-20-2017, 05:56 AM

JensL's YouTube video about not using backing tracks came out simultaneously with another guy's excellent video on the same topic, or YouTube arranged that serendipity for me, but come on, it's undeniable they have a point. The fact most backing tracked YouTube music sounds vastly unrealistic, or worse, in itself implies a huge compromise had to be accepted by the player - not in the sense that the BT is necessarily bad, but it's a weird situation in same the sense it would be weird to play a football game with a bunch of robots. I'm not sure the backing track guys always put themselves in the shoes of the listener. They are many versions on YouTube of any given standard with backing tracks, while good solo versions of the same standard can be extremely rare, if they exist at all. Because, plain and simple, it's a lot harder to do solo. Full range of the guitar has to be used. Guitar can't pretend it's a saxophone. The tune has to be treated like the song that it is, not a set of "changes" to blow over.

**boo** · 11-23-2017, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by m_d

JensL's YouTube video about not using backing tracks came out simultaneously with another guy's excellent video on the same topic, or YouTube arranged that serendipity for me, ....

YouTube does not suggest me the second video you mentioned, so could you please so kind and post the link here? Thanks!

**Philco** · 11-23-2017, 08:12 AM

Re the app that Drumgenius sounds came from: Addictive Drums 2.
Just noticed that they have a 50% off deal.
Great chance to get it half price.
Also the Jazz Drums library add-on pack will be half price.

Just a heads up if you are interested.

The company is XLN Audio.

**m_d** · 11-23-2017, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by boo

YouTube does not suggest me the second video you mentioned, so could you please so kind and post the link here? Thanks!

Here you go:

**Gabor** · 11-23-2017, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by m_d

JensL's YouTube video about not using backing tracks came out simultaneously with another guy's excellent video on the same topic, or YouTube arranged that serendipity for me, but come on, it's undeniable they have a point. The fact most backing tracked YouTube music sounds vastly unrealistic, or worse, in itself implies a huge compromise had to be accepted by the player - not in the sense that the BT is necessarily bad, but it's a weird situation in same the sense it would be weird to play a football game with a bunch of robots. I'm not sure the backing track guys always put themselves in the shoes of the listener. They are many versions on YouTube of any given standard with backing tracks, while good solo versions of the same standard can be extremely rare, if they exist at all. Because, plain and simple, it's a lot harder to do solo. Full range of the guitar has to be used. Guitar can't pretend it's a saxophone. The tune has to be treated like the song that it is, not a set of "changes" to blow over.

We completely agree that most backing tracks are poor quality on YouTube. However this has nothing to do with the conclusion the backing track in general will ruin your rhythm or not.

If you use rusty strings you may hurt yourself. This does not mean "using stings is not recommended". I hope the analogy of the logical glitch is clear.

Btw Aebersold has more than one with Joey DeFrancesco, also Hal Leonards have the same quantity, on some of them the pianist is Hal Galper (one more reason to (re)listen Scofield's very firs debut album: "Rough House") There are literally thousands of high quality tracks of course not typically the free ones.

Imho: backing tracks will not ruin your rhythm. They are not explicitly for improve your rhythm (but may improve a bit), as they are not for improving your ear neither (but they may improve a bit). For those skills you must use special more efficient excercises. (Good) backing tracks will improve your listening and cooperation skill, and improve you as musician, adding plus practice time for the real live band practice times.

**geese_com** · 11-23-2017, 01:42 PM

Has anyone found any drum tracks on Drumgenius that would work well for gypsy jazz?

**Gabor** · 11-23-2017, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by geese_com

Has anyone found any drum tracks on Drumgenius that would work well for gypsy jazz?

Ideally there is no drum, (see Trio Rosenberg) so silence will do it perfectly :-)

**wengr** · 01-05-2018, 02:08 PM

Can we use Addictive trigger on the DG loops to end up with a midi loop that can then be imported into Addictive Drums 2?
Disclaimer- I have little idea what I'm talking about.

**Philco** · 01-05-2018, 09:54 PM

I do have Addictive Trigger but I don't think it generates midi. It looks at the peaks in the audio file and allows you to replace or mix in new drum sounds so you can augment or replace the existing sounds.
There are plugs that generate midi from audio files. Logic can do this and I think the new Toontracks Superior Drummer 3 can do it. I have it but have not looked at it yet.

In any case I really don't think any of those things will work. The DG loops are quite complex.....with a lot of soft snare hits .....ghost notes etc. Very soft kick hits that would not get picked up and of course there is so much cymbal work and those hits would not be picked up very well. Without the hat and ride cymbal, you've really got nothing.

You need separate drum tracks to get a good result.....or something simple like rock or pop where there are defined hits.

I did ask the creator of Drum Genius if he would supply the midi loops at a cost........but, of course, it was a silly question.
Someone would make them available on the net and that would be the end of the App.

**wengr** · 01-06-2018, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Philco

In any case I really don't think any of those things will work. The DG loops are quite complex.....with a lot of soft snare hits .....ghost notes etc. Very soft kick hits that would not get picked up and of course there is so much cymbal work and those hits would not be picked up very well. Without the hat and ride cymbal, you've really got nothing.

Ok, thanks for the response. I was hoping that since the DG loops are percussion only, that they could be used satisfactorily, as opposed to perc buried in a complete mix. All I really want to do is have one DG loop transition to another seamlessly, - and some fills would be nice. But I don't know how to accomplish this.

**saxguy** · 03-19-2018, 02:56 PM

I was hoping that I would be able to start/stop a chosen loop with my Airturn bluetooth-enabled pedal. Can this be added to the app? I could then gig with it and my looper for solo restaurant gigs

**jads57** · 03-19-2018, 06:55 PM

Oh Joy another improvement in the world of replacing other musicians! I get it and it's too late, but basically Screw all Compurter generated replacements for musicians. Makes me sick!

When can we expect Doctor's Lawyer's replacements? NEVER!

**saxguy** · 03-19-2018, 09:36 PM

there's simply no room at the restaurant for a second musician

**jads57** · 03-19-2018, 11:47 PM

Is there even a real musician at the restaurant?

**saxguy** · 03-20-2018, 01:10 AM

Sure there's room for one, me on guitar and a small speaker for drum genius and my looper pedal playing rhythm first, then soloing on top of how ever long I want to play per tune

**cosmic gumbo** · 03-20-2018, 03:43 AM

Next week you'll prolly get replaced by a cd player, to use your space to fit in one more diner.

**wengr** · 03-20-2018, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by saxguy

Sure there's room for one, me on guitar and a small speaker for drum genius and my looper pedal playing rhythm first, then soloing on top of how ever long I want to play per tune

Is there any way to sync the looper to DG? Or do you intend to have them independent, and hope they stay well enough in sync for the duration of the tune?

**mr. beaumont** · 03-20-2018, 10:30 AM

Interestingly enough, the guitar can actually be used to play both melody and harmony simultaneously.

**joe2758** · 03-20-2018, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Interestingly enough, the guitar can actually be used to play both melody and harmony simultaneously.

who do i look like, esteban? get real matz

**Gabor** · 03-20-2018, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by jads57

Oh Joy another improvement in the world of replacing other musicians! I get it and it's too late, but basically Screw all Compurter generated replacements for musicians. Makes me sick!

When can we expect Doctor's Lawyer's replacements? NEVER!

Drum genius is for practicing and not for making live music. And it does its job damn good, so please stop complaining about its existence. Also it sounds a bit theatrical to extrapolate it to extinction of musicians on Earth :-). Just a sophisticated metronome.

**jads57** · 03-20-2018, 02:40 PM

Really I can name many Hit Pop tunes with drum machines on them from Michael Jackson,Steve Winwood, to most of todays hits.
It's not the machine I have a problem with. It's the greedy people who use it to cut out real musicians occupations.
As well as making music less musical overall!

It also is (drum programming) used in clubs by singles,duo's etc. which has further eroded live music. But this in fairness is the audience's fault, for not caring about real music enough. But please correct me if I'm out of line. By the way how do you make a living as a musician if I may be so bold?