Ben Monder Plays and Talks JS Bach

[Liarspoker]

A short excerpt from the Deep Dive with Ben Monder which happened yesterday evening.

It's interesting that Ted Greene and Ben plus other fingerstyle jazz guitarists play Bach Chorales.

As Ben says it's a non-guitaristic way of approaching the fingerboard.

This one is especially for Christian

Would love to hear all of your thoughts.

Can playing Bach Chorales bring a new paradigm to your playing?

[Christian Miller]

I haven't yet graduated to four parts... ;-)

I should get around to this at some point. Playing two part inventions has certainly put hair on my chest. It's all good, playing stuff that is in many senses, entirely unsuited to the instrument.

Will watch later....

[Liarspoker]

I haven't yet graduated to four parts... ;-)

I should get around to this at some point. Playing two part inventions has certainly put hair on my chest. It's all good, playing stuff that is in many senses, entirely unsuited to the instrument.

Will watch later....

Four-part is the only way to do it

I'm back to playing chorales on the six string. Such fun

[Christian Miller]

Four-part is the only way to do it

I'm back to playing chorales on the six string. Such fun

Nah three parts all the way…. If you want independence of parts…highly underrated (I blame the Germans.)

Four parts is doable for homophony- so chorales, sure

It’s interesting though, I’ve heard pianists say this, I thought it was a guitar thing… limitations of the instrument

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[wolflen]

Ted Greene often played the Bach Chorales. There is a vid of him giving a seminar at Musicians Institute years back and he is
casually playing one as he is talking to the guests.

There are several chorales on Teds website.

[Liarspoker]

wolflen, I think that Ted spend a good period of time practicing the Bach Chorales for up to 12 hours a day. Maybe Barbara's book might reveal more (I haven't read it)?

Christian, 4-part is the only way to go. Just revisiting number 1 on the 6:string. Not perfect and only the first phrase but you get the idea.

[Christian Miller]

Actually for guitar I would recommend about lot of two part haha. It’s more than my brain can deal with honestly.

According to Remes Bach taught the craft of chorale harmonisation by asking students to come up with several bass-lines, figuring and then expanding to four+ parts as the exercise dictated. So in a sense they are two part.. bass and melody.

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[Christian Miller]

I’m also a big fan of one part haha


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[Jimmy blue note]

I haven't yet graduated to four parts... ;-)

I should get around to this at some point. Playing two part inventions has certainly put hair on my chest. It's all good, playing stuff that is in many senses, entirely unsuited to the instrument.

Will watch later....

I was kind of surprised not to see you in the Zoom, Christian. I think you would have gotten so much out of it.

[Christian Miller]

I was kind of surprised not to see you in the Zoom, Christian. I think you would have gotten so much out of it.

I’m sure I would! Weekends are a bit tricky tho…


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[Jimmy Smith]

Being an organist, I can attest to 2 and 3 independent parts being plenty. Bass line, melody, inner part. It's enough to hurt your brain.

[Jimmy blue note]

Being an organist, I can attest to 2 and 3 independent parts being plenty. Bass line, melody, inner part. It's enough to hurt your brain.

You should see Ben harmonizing 4 moving voices on the fly, and reharmonizing it in 4 voices and melody on top in real time. It can be done if your harmonic concept is comprehensive. It helps to work with Goodrick's voice leading, it puts 4 voices into a study in movement via cycles which can then be modularized in a moving and shifting harmony.

[wolflen]

You should see Ben harmonizing 4 moving voices on the fly, and reharmonizing it in 4 voices and melody on top in real time. It can be done if your harmonic concept is comprehensive. It helps to work with Goodrick's voice leading, it puts 4 voices into a study in movement via cycles which can then be modularized in a moving and shifting harmony.

Bobby Stern is a sax player who has many improv lessons for sale on his site.

the thing about his approach is that it is harmonic..and explores his lines in all 12 keys..usually in the cycle of 4ths/5ths. But others as well.

In doing this you explore the entire fretboard and every note is part of a chord and not a random filler

I find this extremely important as it leaves no "blank" spots in the exercise..and in many cases where polytonal chords are used
and you are open to thinking in several keys / tonal centers in the same exercise ie: Emi7b5 C9 (no root) Gb alt dom (b9 b13)

In these cases knowing voice leading is crucial to the harmonic flow of the exercise..here is where knowing inversions and slash/chords
and working with top note melodic movement align.

for what ever reason Sterns work used to be posted here but have not seen it in a long while ..I personally think it would be a great asset in the Improvisation section/

To me this kind of study is an extension of Bach flavored harmonic movement

[Jimmy Smith]

You should see Ben harmonizing 4 moving voices on the fly, and reharmonizing it in 4 voices and melody on top in real time. It can be done if your harmonic concept is comprehensive. It helps to work with Goodrick's voice leading, it puts 4 voices into a study in movement via cycles which can then be modularized in a moving and shifting harmony.

That's awesome. 3 is the max for me right now. For my keys playing If I can get command of improv where I can control the bass, melody, and an inner part, that's advanced enough for me. Obviously more voices could be worked out in advance and practiced til you get it provided you can technically play it.