Holdsworth - Nuages solo transcription

[pamosmusic]

So? His scales being widely available doesn't mean his chromatic/altered line harmony approach wasn't unique to him. And it was.

middle to late Coltrane comes to mind

[pamosmusic]

Also none of this is to say Holdsworth wasn’t revolutionary. He totally was. I just think we tend to like genius to be quantifiable in ways that don’t really hold up often in reality.

[James W]

I find his version of this tune to be exquisite, and those synth-type sounds totally luscious.

As for his altered line harmony approach being unique to him, I don't know. Perhaps Jimmy could say more specifically about what aspects of Holdsworth's line approach he thinks are unique. Perhaps it's more a case of his compositional approach being unique. What I definitely can say is that Holdsworth absolutely had his own sound, his own unique sonic fingerprint and sound-world which is very distinctive and beautiful.

[GuyBoden]

I find his version of this tune to be exquisite, and those synth-type sounds totally luscious.

As for his altered line harmony approach being unique to him, I don't know. Perhaps Jimmy could say more specifically about what aspects of Holdsworth's line approach he thinks are unique. Perhaps it's more a case of his compositional approach being unique. What I definitely can say is that Holdsworth absolutely had his own sound, his own unique sonic fingerprint and sound-world which is very distinctive and beautiful.

Yes definitely, his "compositional approach being unique." is what I like best, his chord voicings and time feel.

I did learn the actual chord voicings to a few tunes as chord melody pieces over the years. "Pud Wud" and "Above and below".

[James W]

Yes definitely, his "compositional approach being unique." is what I like best, his chord voicings and time feel.

I did learn the actual chord voicings to a few tunes as chord melody pieces over the years. "Pud Wud" and "Above and below".

I learned 'Above And Below' ages ago. What an incredibly magical tune that is!

[ragman1]

It sounded very much in the spirit of the tune to me.

Not in the spirit of the original tune but very much in the spirit of his own ideas of it. Not quite the same thing :-)

[Jimmy Smith]

I didn't say he invented his own scales. I said he invented his own language. You guys are being ridiculous. That's like saying an author can't be innovative if he/she uses the alphabet.

If the wording of inventing his own language is too strong for you, he's absolutely one of the foremost innovators in all of history for a harmonic approach (of his lines).

I personally do think he created a new approach. He devised a system where he's constantly playing outside but it always functions beautifully as if he were playing with a common inside system. That's ridiculous. Other great out players that use his amount of dissonance don't really do that. They kind of alternate between inside and noise (or only noise).

[GuyBoden]

I didn't say he invented his own scales. I said he invented his own language. You guys are being ridiculous. That's like saying an author can't be innovative if he/she uses the alphabet.

If the wording of inventing his own language is too strong for you, he's absolutely one of the foremost innovators in all of history for a harmonic approach (of his lines).

I personally do think he created a new approach. He devised a system where he's constantly playing outside but it always functions beautifully as if he were playing with a common inside system. That's ridiculous. Other great out players that use his amount of dissonance don't really do that. They kind of alternate between inside and noise (or only noise).

" He devised a system where he's constantly playing outside"

Obviously, inspired by the Bradford 'constantly outside' electric Trolley Buses, where he was born.

[mr. beaumont]

I play outside from like mid-March to October.

Joking aside, I wonder if Allan thought what he was doing was "outside."

[James W]

I didn't say he invented his own scales. I said he invented his own language. You guys are being ridiculous. That's like saying an author can't be innovative if he/she uses the alphabet.

If the wording of inventing his own language is too strong for you, he's absolutely one of the foremost innovators in all of history for a harmonic approach (of his lines).

I personally do think he created a new approach. He devised a system where he's constantly playing outside but it always functions beautifully as if he were playing with a common inside system. That's ridiculous. Other great out players that use his amount of dissonance don't really do that. They kind of alternate between inside and noise (or only noise).

'Constantly playing outside'? Have you taken a look at Christian's transcription? I don't really get what you're on about in your last paragraph here - for one thing, Holdsworth does alternate between inside and outside sounds - in accordance with whatever tune he happens to be playing, moreso on a tune like 'Nuages' rather than something like his own '0274' which sounds to me to be more modal and nonfunctional. But there is definitely tension and release in his playing and his music. Again I would ask you to be more specific about what you mean by innovative in his harmonic approach of his lines, because you just sound like you're gushing a bit. How are his lines harmonically innovative? I don't wish to detract from Holdsworth's stature and genius, but I do think it's better served by dispassionate observation rather than hyperbole (though I am not one to talk, I too gush about music I love haha).

Incidentally, a few weeks ago I dug out all my Guitar Techniques magazines which feature Holdsworth transcriptions. I have one by Pete Callard which is very good, it features lines from ' Devil Take The Hindmost' , ' The Sixteen Men Of Tain' and 'Joshua'. He is more harmonically adventurous than most guitarists, for sure. But his whole concept seems all the more advanced because of his idiom - that is to say, his compositional voice, rather than solely because of his improvisational language. I think, actually, his technique is objectively speaking unique - I'm not sure any guitarist before of since based their legato solely on hammer-ons.

[Jimmy Smith]

No, every note he plays isn't always outside. Many of the notes are inside, and some passages are obviously inside. However, most passages contain altered or chromatic notes to some degree, even if using some standard jazz chord scale theory. Making the overall tonality of his lines function in an altered/chromatic way. Rather than the lines functioning on the vanilla tonality.