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I have a vague recollection that someone re-amped some of the tracks and put them through an amp simulator at some point but I could be completely wrong. It would be interesting if it was possible!
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03-14-2014 03:33 AM
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I think I probably did imagine it, wishful thinking!
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Originally Posted by Foulds Jazz Guitars
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Originally Posted by fritz jones
Not all pickups rattle. To my ears the only song on Virtuoso that has good tone is "Here's That Rainy Day." The rest are thin and scratchy to me. Great playing, awful tone. Depends on what you like to hear, I guess, and everyone's taste is different. Joe's tone on For Django and some of the ca. 1992 videos with his custom Gibson sound great to my ears.
Here's a post from another thread about this topic:
Originally Posted by fep
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Originally Posted by fritz jones
Check out the LP cover - looks like he tied a strap round the whole guitar and the pickup!
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maybe that's how they controlled the pickup rattle.
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Originally Posted by billkath
Recording quality was Great in 1973, amazing microphones, preamps, and great Ampex tape machines.
I interviewed Joe in 1991, and changed his guitar strings, D’Adarrio 13 flats iirc, i’ve still got ‘em somewhere, along with his half smoked cigar... DNA anyone?
But it never occurred to me to ask him about the particulars of that recording. I just assumed it was his 175 unplugged and miked, and/or direct through a good direct box, with his flatwound D’Adarrios. But the acoustic tone of the guitar is so rich and full, it almost defies a 175.
The tape recorder & Mastering of the LP could have also affected to tone, a great organic EQ like a Pultec, with Fairchild compressor, and a reverb plate or chamber.
I’ll try to listen to it in the studio one day and give a better opinon.
There are a variety of tones on the record, some acoustic, some electric, and some mixed.
Cheers, JT
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We had a big discussion about this a few years ago, and as an experiment I recorded my 175 acoustically, playing fingerstyle, to see what it sounded like:
Last edited by grahambop; 02-27-2020 at 09:03 AM.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
If nothing else, I think the sound I got was reasonably similar, supports the idea that his 175 was unplugged and miked on most of those tracks.Last edited by grahambop; 02-27-2020 at 12:29 PM.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
I know it was produced by Norman Granz. I'm not sure who engineered it. Of course there's always the debate about whether the lack of amplification was deliberate or not. One would like to think it was.
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My CD copy says the engineer was Dennis Sands.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
The Allmusic site shows that Virtuoso was apparently his first major artist engineering job. Talk about hitting a home run...worked for Joe, as well.
Dennis Sands | Credits | AllMusic
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Hitting a homerun? In terms of the quality of the guitar sound, which is what the engineer's job would have been to do, this is one of the most roundly criticized recording sessions in the history of jazz guitar.
While there are certainly some people who like the sound of this album, they seem to be in the minority. I find it practically unlistenable despite the brilliance of the playing.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Originally Posted by Cunamara
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Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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Originally Posted by Cunamara
I’m sure you all have your own stories about encountering it. I had someone staying in my room for a few weeks when I was in college around 1982, and he left behind a box with about a dozen records. One of them was Virtuoso. I recorded most of the records on cassette, and proceeded to listen to Virtuoso nonstop. For me it was a revelation that so much sound could come out of one person on guitar.
About that time I acquired an ES-175 and started taking lessons primarily in fingerstyle/chord melody. I learned a lot, and not surprisingly realized that I was never going to come close to Joe’s facility on guitar. In fact I got so frustrated I almost stopped playing, and eventually sold that guitar. But I never gave it up completely, and went back to jazz guitar in the 90’s.
Joe’s music has been a touchstone and inspiration. IMO, because of the unadorned production the music is accessible in a way that more typical jazz records (at least the ones that feature jaw-dropping technique) aren’t. JMO of course.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
Nice playing. Maple, as a tonewood, has a bright, clear sound. When it is in a laminate construction as your E175, it maintains its clarity but looses sustain when played acoustically. This is especially noticeable in your audio when playing the first two strings in the upper register. Clear and bright but lacking significant sustain. This IS NOT a criticism but an observation that for my ears could be easily rectified by amplifying the guitar and tweaking tone controls(not your experiment). In my Classical playing, I play exclusively cedar top guitars since I like a more rounded sound when playing trebles however, many Classical guitarists prefer Spruce which is much closer to the clear, bright sound produced by Maple. When I play my '66 Gibson ES125 TC ,which has a Maple top, I do my warm up exercises acoustically to set the natural tone base in my head and then amplify and tweak accordingly when playing pieces since my ears prefer a more rounded rather than a crisp, edgy sound. The advantage of an EG over a CG is that tone is set by the player; in CG, tone is set by the instrument. Thanks for the post. Good playing . . . MarineroLast edited by Marinero; 03-01-2020 at 08:39 PM. Reason: error
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Thanks, yes it’s not my favourite sound from a 175!
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Jake's approach here is channeling the spirit of Joe's playing on this classic record.
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"When I play my '66 Gibson ES125 TC ,which has a Spruce top"
? They don't have spruce tops, they're laminated maple.
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Originally Posted by AndyV
GO JAKE GO
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Originally Posted by wintermoon
I should have caught that error. I think I had Spruce on the brain! I've made the correction on my post. Good playing . . . MarineroLast edited by Marinero; 03-01-2020 at 08:57 PM. Reason: addition
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Originally Posted by grahambop
From Bar Chords to Bebop
Today, 02:33 PM in Improvisation