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BTW before you think I’m having a pop at the younger generation, this has been true of classical recordings for DECADES.
Jazz recordings too often as you probably know - Metheny was called out by Gary Burton for being an inveterate splicer together of solos. I think Scott Henderson works this way as a rule when recording albums sometimes learning the spliced solos to re-record them (!). And obviously Pat and Scott can cut it live to say the least)!
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06-19-2023 02:17 PM
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Well, it's Giant Steps. What guitar version of Giant Steps do you prefer?
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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Well, it's not limited to just his video of Giant Steps, which, in my opinion, is more of an aptitude test than a song people want to hear. Being hard to play doesn't make a song good. Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
But, if I had to pick one version....
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I get that someone might not get Allan, but Jules plays really nice music on his guitar; what’s not to get? I dunno.
Anyway here’s a nice solo on Giant Steps by Peter Bernstein
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So it’s cool… he’s great. First thing I think is ‘oh, Scott Henderson’. There’s your problem. Well actually my problem… I can only talk about me. I’m not about to tell him how to play the guitar lol. But I have some influence on myself. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
it’s a horrible phrase but ‘kill your darlings?’ I’m very slowly realising music is not about indulging oneself haha - including one’s love of other players. It has to be more than that to have impact
Im not 100% but I remember Scott saying there was a point where he thought he was starting to sound a bit like Allan (who he loves) and he had to take a hard left turn.
I say this as if I do it. I don’t. I evaluate as with most guitar players by how much I sound like other players I like. But you have to get beneath that or at least not let it distract you from playing the way you play and not getting caught up in other people’s stuff. It’s easier when people start to vibe off what you do, it becomes a virtuous circle.
Problem is; the scene has use for the guy who sounds a bit like x though. That person will have gigs, and it can even be fun, but it will always be a chain around your neck if you let it get too much. At least it’s not something I’m comfortable with. I think most of us want to feel we can be ourselves though?
It’s more about a feeling than a sound for me I think. It probably sounds like I’m contradicting myself, but I promise I’m not haha.
Anyway, Mancuso will be absolutely fine lol. Either he’ll remain happy doing what he’s doing, or he’ll evolve.Last edited by Christian Miller; 06-19-2023 at 07:18 PM.
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So his big turn left him sounding like SRV started a fusion group. I guess that's more acceptable in the fusion world. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Is that what he sounds like to you? Originally Posted by DawgBone
Interesting.
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Yes. HSW, Henderson Smith and Wooten is the recording of his I am most familiar with. Definite Stevie tone there beyond just being a guy with a strat. Licks too. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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I don’t know that specific band, I will try and track it down. Sounds like a fun lineup. Listening to HBC now (Henderson, Berlin, Chambers) that’s a fun record. Originally Posted by DawgBone
Well he likes his blues guitar, so naturally SRV will be either a direct influence, osmosis or shared influences. I know he likes Albert king a lot. Tbh I don’t hear SRV in particular, but it’s been an age since I’ve actually listened to any SRV.
scott is a player I could recognise very quickly and I’m not even a particular fan. His approach to improv is very distinctive and his style with the vibrato etc.
Adding electric blues influences into jazz has been commonplace for around forty years.
EDIT: I see what you mean by the tone. A bit. Henderson is more saturated though. This is more of a recent thing with Henderson, he used to have a more generic 80s fusion sound with Tribal Tech. I wouldn’t bet against SRV moving him in that direction. I think he killed a lot of 80s distortion tones haha … well I say that but that stuffs back in fashion
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I shorted you a little info there, my bad. The album is actually Henderson, Smith, and Wooten "Vital Tech Tones" and it is a fusion type album I can stomach better probably because of the electric blues influences. Scott IS an interesting player but I'd still rather hear straight ahead blues playing. Steve Smith is always killer. And of course Victor smokes it on that record esp "Snake Soda". I caught Victor and Reggie at the Clearwater Jazz Fest many years ago now...they even had a theremin for crying out loud. But it was an entertaining, audience pleasing show. Branford was better though....Tain Watts is the man.... Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Taking another listen after a long time and his tone is oftentimes more driven than SRV but there are definitely spots where he has a tone in the SRV/Hendrix vein happening. King Twang witth the wah wah. Mr. Hee, once he kills the chorus box for a couple samples. Maybe it is just a strat thing and I'm wrong,....
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Giant Steps? I like PB's version. I saw a clip/interview sometime ago with Coryell playing a bit of it. He said it's like a test you have to pass. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for a fine composition.
I don't love this type of playing these days, but there's something about Matteo I like. And it's not his speed, though it doesn't bother me either.
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Well Giant Steps was a workout, an exercise, then became a “composition”.
I think Matteo got it just fine.
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+1 Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Great guitar player!
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(after watching his Giant Steps video) ...I'm interested in his right hand technique: those fast runs using just the index and middle fingers and the hand position (when not holding the whammy bar) looks, to me, like standard Classical guitar right hand use for single note phrases, scales etc. That's what I was taught to do when I took a few classical guitar lessons in my early twenties. I soon went back to the pick.
Interesting to see Matteo use it on electric guitar. Is he coming from classical guitar? (Don't know much about him, I probabily should check Wikipedia).
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Yes, like Wes, his right hand technique is another example of human adaptaton. Originally Posted by frabarmus
He started with classical and "no one told him" that you don't use fingers on the electric guitar. Accordingly, he is forced to compress the right hand due to string spacing. His playing is very smooth as a result, and then he taps like a wild man.
He was being interviweed and said that sometimes he breaks a nail, and said that he'd broken one that day. The interviewer then asked "on the guitar?" and he said "no, it was soccer". lol
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Donna Lee:
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
RE: PB Giant steps: I like this version a lot.
RE: Julian: His music never spoke to me, and then that clip of him noodling around on Charlie Christians guitar made the rounds with comments that he's the best ever, and the new West Montgomery but I don't hear free playing, to me it sounded like he was lost in the changes.
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I see... then he sure must be the goal-keeper in his team, lol! Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
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When I was 16 (in 1989) I was impressed by Yngwie Malmsteen. Maybe blame it on Matteo Mancusos youth but nowadays I prefer players (may their technique be a little less stellar) that have something to say (a.k.a. storytelling) ... Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
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What? That was a terrific solo on Donna Lee. Lots of variety of expression and language, fluency, quotes, a climax, etc. There likely isn't another one like it on the guitar. And playing Donna Lee is not a big money maker these days, that's probably why he just did it from home.
But - it's a Bebop standard and he showeed what he can do. He can skillfully play classical, rock, fusion, and Bebop, but that's not enough, huh? OK.
Parting shot - It is beyond conception why you chose that second performance as some sort of performance standard for comparison, because it was pretty darned average. What IS certain is that comparing a 26 year-old to all these pros in their 50s is nonsensical.
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Did we listen to the same solo? That was 2 minutes of almost mono speed playing. I preferred the playing on the butt rock video in the OP. Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
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Inaccurate. Firstly, this is not a ballad or mid tempo sleeper. It’s a bebop burner. Originally Posted by DawgBone
There were very structured phrases with pauses, steady streams of notes, little thematic excursions, licks and quotes, then a lighting climax.
There is a lot of up tempo dense soloing in jazz. They call it “Blowing”. Listen to Coltrane on Giant Steps.
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I don’t know. Lots of interesting vocab and stuff in there. It’s not really my bag of chips, but it would be understandable if he was a killer young player who’s still kind of in the “chameleon” phase. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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Also a weird background thing for me … I wanted to be a jazz studies major but—budget cuts etc—ended up being a classical guitar major. My guitar teacher was always trying to convince me that classical stuff was very jazz-relevant. (Mostly it wasn’t, except in very granular ways, but also that was fine because I really enjoyed classical guitar etc etc etc.) Anyway … he was always showing me videos of people playing jazz with fingerstyle alternating and mostly it sounded like that. Like in a blind test, I would absolutely know there was something weird with their technique and I could probably guess if it was i m or p m or whatever.
No way I would’ve guessed this dude was playing finger style on those single note lines. Only clue maybe would be some of that intervallic stuff where it’s too clean to be with a pick, or things that ring out over each other in a way that would be hard with a pick. Nothing about the time feel or whatever. That’s super impressive.
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I've listened to jazz before but thanks for the 101 course on what "blowing" is. Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
You confirmed it for me "steady streams of notes". Monospeed. His "breaths" weren't enough to offset that initial impression. I suspect he is more adept than the rehearsal room backing track instagram video but so far his overdriven electric playing is more interesting which is also typical of a younger player IMO. There was more breathing happening there. Maybe I'll check out his acoustic stuff.
I don't like Giant Steps either, sorry. The melody ain't much as far as melodies go. It sounds like an exercise. Is that heresy? I don't care. Find something else dammit. I'd rather hear Afro Blue anytime. Superior composition. Soul, feeling, a melody that hooks immediately. I find it pitiful how narrow people's song selections are these days, regardless of genre. Blues rock? Gotta hit that cissy strut (barf) and Doodoo Child slight return. followed by Little Wing. Jazz? Giant steps and then we'll hit "Misty" (barf). Country? We'll hit Tennesse Whiskey and Wagon Wheel. Don't forget the only Santo and Johnny tune anyone has ever heard "Sleepwalkin" as though they never did anything else. Like a bunch of bots, all playing the same shit. I guess it makes it easy to be different unless you are the guy who plays all the same crap everyone else does. I guess I shouldn't complain. I need any advantage I can get. It seems most people's playlists have become impossibly narrow just like your average radio station.
One day I started dragging Shuggie Otis' "me and my woman" out at gigs because I wanted something much less traveled from the blues realm. I knew it was a good selection when I heard another band down sixth street covering the same song a couple weeks later but it was still kind of annoying. I am always on the lookout for stuff other guys can't, won't, or don't do. People sometimes request Hendrix. I tell them that the other three bands playing the same street will handle that for you.
Rant off.
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