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Originally Posted by Marinero
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09-21-2022 08:35 AM
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...regarding (Beethoven) "accessable to anyone, especially if you compare it to e.g. Stravinsky, Schönberg, Bartok, Hindemith"
my experience is the opposite. I listened Bartók when I was 20, and accepted Beethoven only 20 years later when I was 40. When I was 20 I found Beethoven "boring" which is obviously nonsense.
To be fair, Keith Emerson helped me a lot, the very first title in the very first ELP album is Allegro Barbaro, so literally speaking I listened and admired, and partly understood Bartók when I was 14 :-). Same goes to Pictures of an Exhibbiton, and Nutcracker.
Unfortunatelly Keith Emerson has avoided Beethoven from afar and left me on my own in that respect. Hard work, repeated attempts and the string quartets finally did the job :-)
(I do not think I will ever listen Schönberg or Hindemith)
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Originally Posted by Gabor
Andrew Hill studied with Hindemith.
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Originally Posted by Bop Head
Symphony no9 is a fantastically peculiar piece of music if you really listen to it. I can really understand why people thought he was mad, and also why so many found it inspiring.
I mean beyond the big tune, all that strange connecting tissue, sudden violence, juxtapositions. He opens the last movement with an unclassifiable seven note dissonance that must have been completely shocking to those raised on Haydn, and it still sounds pretty powerful today. Having the cellos and basses play vocal recitative. He's tearing up every rule he can think of. There's something a little terrifying about the finale too, a little too much. We are well and truly through the looking glass with this one. Beethoven isn't cosy - he's a violent revolutionary.
And yes, he does address the common person.
Perfect music for our times.
(Perhaps I've just listened to a lot of humdrum 18th/early 19th century music so I know how that music is meant to behave haha)
Beethoven was busy inventing 20th century music in the early 19th, especially when you get to the late quartets.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by Bop Head
The organist for our church when I was young was very well versed, and played the pipe organ for all it was worth.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Not simultaneously.
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Originally Posted by citizenk74
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by Bop Head
John Cacavas (a film composer) studied with Hindemith. He asked him why his books contained nothing that sounded like Mathis.
Hindemith said, "What, do you think I'm crazy? You think I'm going to give away my greatest secrets for a book that costs three or four dollars?!"
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Originally Posted by Gabor
If you like Mozart, fine.
I you like Gucci Mane, fine (just keep your windows rolled up).
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I asked my teacher why the heck he did that, and she said he liked to play musical jokes on people, or wanted to upset the royalty.
That's why I always insist people refer to him as 'Papa' Hendrix.
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Originally Posted by Gabor
Schonberg couldn't have written music like that if his life had depended on it.
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Originally Posted by sgcim
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Originally Posted by Bop Head
My bad memory. Thanks for the correction!
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Originally Posted by Marinero
The "new gen" players (however you are defining that- where's the boundary? Pat Metheny, maybe, being the inflection point?) have a wide range of diversity:
This stuff is great!
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I've always been intrigued by this: How does listening to classical music help a jazz musician?
Ludwig van Beethoven - in the music school I even had an exam in all the symphonies written by him.
I listened to his music for hours and in the evening I played "blues" in a jazz clubs, that was in the 70's.
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Originally Posted by sgcim
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Last edited by Bop Head; 09-22-2022 at 05:07 AM.
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Originally Posted by sgcim
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I have a soft spot for this one
I tried to see it live but didn’t pre order tickets and it was sold out lol
out of schoenbergs books I got the most out of fundamentals of musical composition. That’s said there’s probably loads of Harmonielehre stuff that I use without thinking.
it’s amazing how many concepts Schoenberg developed that are now taught as standard
german music theory though, booLast edited by Christian Miller; 09-22-2022 at 05:25 AM.
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Very interesting responses and tastes. Someone mentioned "Ode To Joy" by Beethoven which I absolutely detest and do not feel it represents the best of his music. Part of the problem is that I play it, in transcription, in my "Commoners' Gigs" and they all love it . . . and it's my opinion is that they love it because they recognize it from being played ad nauseum on TV and Radio. Makes sense, right? However, Beethoven was a brooder and his best music reflects his deep, profound understanding of the world. My favorite piece(which is available in CG transcription) is his Adagio Movement from his Symphony Pathetique. This is the mastery of LVB in writing about the human experience. Here's Matthew McCallister and Wilhelm Kempff. Enjoy
Marinero
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So, yesterday, I uncovered this gem From Miles and Coltrane in Stockholm in 1960. Stardust, is probably one of the most played songs in popular music history, and for good reason . . . a beautiful melody complimented by very sentimental lyrics that leave few listeners untouched. And, again, the needle keeps skipping on the record and I ask: why is no one playing with this ability today? Coltrane was a master of pacing, nuance, connectivity of phrases, and an inventive harmonic/melodic sense. If you follow the music, the magic unfolds note by note, phrase by phrase, and leaves the listener with a special moment in time. We, as musicians, must truly understand that when we play, we must speak with our own voice otherwise we will be lost in doggerel, mimicry, and formulaic improvisations played by everyone else as in the unrelenting Youtube tutorials that are creating musical automatons. Listen to Coltrane's take on this song and think to yourself: 62 years ago and where are we today? Enjoy.
Marinero
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62 years later and we're mistaking Sonny Stitt (on alto, btw) for Coltrane.
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Beethoven also called the guitar the"Perfect musical instrument." Before the birth of the L-5! A visionary, for sure!
What's happening at the end of this song?
Today, 07:55 PM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading