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Originally Posted by Marinero
And everyone knows jazz musicians have a vocabulary that they repeat on improvisations. I'm not talking about 'jazz mysticism' here.
Try to get a classical musician to improvise a jazz solo. Ithzak Perlman tried. It was laughable, as are your comments.Leonard Bernstein used to get lost on a BLUES!!!. Since you're such an expert on classical music and jazz, why don't you post yourself improvising several jazz choruses, and then playing Walton's Bagatelles mister expert. You said you haven't played professionally in almost 50 years, and you come on like you're some type of an expert on jazz. In graduate school, I never met one classical musician who could play a jazz chorus convincingly, who hadn't spent several years playing jazz. Their attempts were laughable, as is your ridiculous nonsense about "TOTAL SPONTANEITY." Total spontaneity is a fetish of various avant garde players.
Using Barney Kessel as an example of a jazz musician who doesn't improvise, and just plays the same cliched solos is as far as what BK did as possible. Did you ever transcribe a BK solo, and play it?
I'm talking about PROCESS. The process of playing jazz is something completely different than the PROCESS of playing a piece that has been written for them by a composer. Virgil Thompson called classical musicians as EXECUTANTS. They execute what the composer writes for them to play.Without a sheet of notes in a specific order, they're lost. Jazz musicians create an order of notes, regardless of whether it includes notes from their vocabulary.
Since you're interested in only playing solo guitar,and not jazz improvisation, you might be more at home posting on rec.classicalguitarpayers.com, and stop writing the nonsense you've posted here. Or go back to your business career; you've apparently got too much time on your hands.
Play live- when was the last time you did it before the pandemic, 1973?
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12-24-2020 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
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That time William Walton came into the bar, looking for a fight...
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Originally Posted by sgcim
We have a saying that you don’t need to be a pig to talk about pork chops...
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Originally Posted by docsteve
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Originally Posted by docsteve
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"You said you haven't played professionally in almost 50 years," sgcim
Hi, S,
You obviously read what you wanted into my words despite what I have clearly written previously. What I have said consistently in my posts is that I left playing in ensembles full-time(R@B/Jazz-Rock/Funk) in the late 70's(sax/flute/guitar) but have continued to play professionally part-time as a solo(Classical/Jazz on Classical guitar) until Covid--do the math. I was not willing to starve being paid garage band wages for a performance and not working for weeks at a time when I had other talents that allowed me to live a good life. I did, however, awaken my Gibson ES125TC from a 40 plus year sleep well over a year ago and have worked it into my daily playing with much pleasure.That's what I've consistently said. Period. I would, however, agree with your observation that most Classical musicians cannot play Jazz convincingly. However, creativity in the Classical idiom is not the same as Jazz but is ,nonetheless, a special gift. To diminish the talents of Segovia, Rubenstein, Kempff, Heifitz, Pablo Casals, Brendel, etc. is patently ignorant and no comparison you've created in your limited perspective to Jazz/Classical Music holds water. Sadly, your words are tainted by your personal animus for me and pathetically mimic the tired, old phrases I've heard for years from delusional crusaders and purveyors of THE TRUTH like yourself concerning music: arrogant, indignant, cliche-ridden, and patently foolish. You own it.
Play live . . . Marinero
P.S. Here's a philosophical question for a self-described academic like yourself: Does Mount Kilimanjaro really exist if you haven't seen it in person? M
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Originally Posted by docsteve
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[QUOTE=Marinero;1085685]"You said you haven't played professionally in almost 50 years," sgcim
Hi, S,
You obviously read what you wanted into my words despite what I have clearly written previously. What I have said consistently in my posts is that I left playing in ensembles full-time(R@B/Jazz-Rock/Funk) in the late 70's(sax/flute/guitar) but have continued to play professionally part-time as a solo(Classical/Jazz on Classical guitar) until Covid--do the math. I was not willing to starve being paid garage band wages for a performance and not working for weeks at a time when I had other talents that allowed me to live a good life. I did, however, awaken my Gibson ES125TC from a 40 plus year sleep well over a year ago and have worked it into my daily playing with much pleasure.That's what I've consistently said. Period. I would, however, agree with your observation that most Classical musicians cannot play Jazz convincingly. However, creativity in the Classical idiom is not the same as Jazz but is ,nonetheless, a special gift. To diminish the talents of Segovia, Rubenstein, Kempff, Heifitz, Pablo Casals, Brendel, etc. is patently ignorant and no comparison you've created in your limited perspective to Jazz/Classical Music holds water. Sadly, your words are tainted by your personal animus for me and pathetically mimic the tired, old phrases I've heard for years from delusional crusaders and purveyors of THE TRUTH like yourself concerning music: arrogant, indignant, cliche-ridden, and patently foolish. You own it.
Play live . . . Marinero
P.S. Here's a philosophical question for a self-described academic like yourself: Does Mount Kilimanjaro really exist if you haven't seen it in person?
Where did I diminish the talents of Segovia, Rubenstein, Kempff, Heifitz, Pablo Casals and Brendel? They are some of music's greatest artists, IMHO.
I was just saying that IMPROVISING jazz, and performing classical music are two different things.
You're the one who was diminishing the talent of Barney Kessel.
It's a shame you had to resort to personal attacks, but it seems you have a chip on your shoulder about something or other. I can't have a mature discussion when things go down to that level. I suggest we put each other on ignore.
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Originally Posted by sgcim
Music is a question of taste .. Personal subjective taste .. If someone doesn't like what everybody else likes then that is their right. Off course it would be cool to have discussions about why someone prefers this to that .. but that is not always possible.Last edited by Lobomov; 12-25-2020 at 11:02 PM.
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Originally Posted by wintermoon
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These days I dress like a hobo because my clothes don't fit anymore. I started walking so as not to get too sedentary.
At least in my experience, girls do like the bad boys not guys dressed like hobos.
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"You're the one who was diminishing the talent of Barney Kessel." sgcim
Hi, S,
I have never criticized BK. I think he was a fine player. However, I have no personal animus against you or anyone else. I do, however, believe that contrary opinions are the strength of any Forum. Perhaps, when we believe strongly about something we can be easily tempted to attack the perpetrator. If I have, in your opinion, been unfair in my remarks I sincerely apologize. After all, there are not many of us left who carry the flickering torch of quality music performance.
Happy Holidays and Play live . . . Marinero
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Originally Posted by BickertRules
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Originally Posted by aquin43
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Have you noticed, in videos of herd animals, there's a constant bumping, kicking and such carrying on amongst the herd - even as they collectively move along, feeding together. Generally none seem to get hurt except ever so often there's a fierce battle between the apparent leader and another who wants to be considered in that same capacity. Then there's a banging of heads for a while - till inevitably one get's overcome by the other or they get tired and move along.
It's sometimes amusing, but always sad, to witness the inevitable pokes, jabs and name-calling that breaks out here about practically any and everything. However I guess, in the the big picture, it's normal for us to behave this way.
To the Herd!
AKALast edited by AKA; 12-28-2020 at 03:42 PM.
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
I can think of some things more important than my 'career' in music right now.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
But where I live, people are busy working already, tons of gigs, not a bad time to think of career in music at all. We are all enjoying it. Sorry I rub it in. I'm not a nice guy lol.
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
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Here we go.
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Let's not do this.
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Originally Posted by sgcim
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Let‘s not do this.
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