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Originally Posted by wintermoon
Being the one of greatest jazz guitarist of all time and remembered the few that also are into jazz guitar trumps entertaining millions and having the possibility to spend 50 million USD to do good in the world or at the very least secure your kids.
Mileage may vary on that opinion.
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12-11-2020 07:40 PM
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Were you aware of Sill when her music first came out in 1971, or did you find out about her more than 30 years later, like I did? Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
A documentary on Sill is coming out in 2021. The director read some of my posts online about her, and asked for some recordings of her jazz pianist husband I had. My name will be on the credits- "special thanks to...."
She actually wrote "JWACM" about breaking up with J.D. Souther. She meant that J.D. was going to get his for cheating on her with Linda Ronstadt. It had no religious meaning; it was all about Souther, using that image as an example of what she wanted to happen to J.D. That track was produced by Graham Nash, with a great string quartet arrangement by her husband, Bob Harris.
People were very confused about that song. I didn't know what the heck it was about till I read an interview with her explaining the meaning of the song. They wrote her off as a 'Jesus Freak' because of it's reference to Jesus. In reality, she got sent to JD prison for holding up a gas station.
She lived with a jazz bass player, and he taught her how to play bass. She then hooked up with Bob Harris, a jazz pianist who played with Zappa on the "Live at the Fillmore East" album. Harris, a cousin of Chuck Findley (great jazz trumpet player) and the son of Maurice Harris (a trumpet player on "The Tonight Show") was a life-long junkie, and he got Sill into heroin.
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it does, greatly! Originally Posted by Lobomov
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Yea, Kessell for me also. But my actual answer is I'm glad to be me. I.e. life has been good to me and for that I'm thankful (well this year, could have been better,,, but,,,, all and all,,,,). Originally Posted by wintermoon
So to cap off 2020 here is one of my favorite Kessell recordings:
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"Someone that needs to put down other artist \ musicians, especially non-jazz ones, at a jazz forum, comes off as very needy and insecure." jameslovestal
Hi, J,
Since our Revolution in 1776, Americans have had a tradition of honesty and plainly speaking their minds. Some other cultures find it refreshing while others find it brusque and intimidating. However, it is a vital part of the historic Western Intellectual Tradition. There has been a phenomena in the last 50 years that is marching towards total absurdity and a dangerous government-controlled group mindset. Where is it in the history of the Intellectual Tradition of Western Man that individual values are repressed and attacked or silenced by group thinking and where the "Individual" is sacrificed for government controlled/sociologically codified thought ? Well, we saw it in the Renaissance with Galileo pitted against the Roman Catholic Church for declaring that the sun, not the earth was the center of our universe. We saw it in the Resistance Movement in Europe against the Nazi Regime. We witnessed it in the Cultural Revolution of China were individual thought was replaced by group thought and 40 million Chinese were killed by Mao and his Revolutionary Guard while untold others were sent to forced labor camps. And, today, we are seeing here in America and around the world where the "Woke" movement seeks to cleanse and purify any thoughts not considered acceptable by the intellectual Leftist/Revolutionary elite and punish people who do not agree with their ideas/agenda. Where is it written that serious intellectual discussion and individual beliefs or opinions should be abolished and group thinking be the accepted norm? Only in totalitarian societies that control their populations thought and speech. Is this what you're advocating ,James, if someone has a different opinion than your own? Should they be berated as "very needy and insecure" since they don't agree with your ideas? Should we be made to believe that all musicians have equal talent so we don't hurt their feelings? Are we not allowed to have opinions about musicians/entertainers if they don't agree with your rules for discussing Art and Music? And, if we adopted your mindset, how would we distinguish a painting by Michelangelo from grandma's paint by numbers collection? I don't need a hug, James, for not accepting group controlled thought since the very thought itself implies that I have strayed off the group think path and am certainly dangerous and needy as an individual. There was a famous saying by the late, great Winston Churchill: if two people think the same about everything . . . only one person is thinking.
Play live . . . Marinero
P.S. Can any serious, accomplished musician believe that an attack on a 50's/60's popular entertainer with no vocal talent/ability ,whatsoever, could generate such animus and criticism? Geez . . . thank God I didn't criticize Tiny Tim! Sadly, even he sings better than Pat.
https://youtu.be/p9TtUjZVTJQ
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Kessell struggled? I knew Barney quite well, he was my jazz mentor, a profound and intelligent person. In the time I spent with him, I never saw any sign of struggling; in fact, he had a bigger struggle with his personal values when he was doing studio work and making double and triple scale than when he left that and became a touring jazz artist, which certainly paid less. Kessell was a great artist, Pat Boone was a BS artist. And we know how easily too many people fall under the sway of a BS artist/con man.
And if you want to secure your kids, teach them good values. Giving them piles of money will do far more harm than good most of the time.
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Nvm .. I don't really belong in this Forum
Last edited by Lobomov; 12-12-2020 at 10:33 AM.
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Originally Posted by Marinero
Robert De Niro is an awful guitar player and Robin Williams can't play the trombone to save his life.
Criticizing is easy .. Acknowledging peoples true talent is apparently a lot harder. Pat Boone had one hell of a career and your criticism makes no sense.
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Entertainment Sells! Actual talent helps,but not nescessary for successful career.
Los Angeles is a fairytale factory full of hopefuls, and some have more ability than others. There also happen to be a place where many great musicians live to make a living as well. But that has also drastically changed.
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Frank Sinatra wasn't terribly fussy about singing on pitch. Mama Cass sang almost everything under the pitch.
I don't know about the performers in other countries, but pop singers in America tend to sing flat, and audiences don't mind. I believe it's harder for most non-musicians to hear someone singing or playing slightly flat than someone singing or playing slightly sharp – that really hurts.
I disagree with you, Marinero, on this one – as a singer myself who has earned a living at it, I don't find Pat Boone to sing particularly flat (which is to say, he was no more off-key than many other pop singers). He had a pleasant baritone voice, in an era when baritone voices were very popular (think Perry Como, Vic Damone and, yes, Sinatra). I never cared for his white-bread vocal sound and arrangements, but that's my taste, and one which a huge portion of the American public in the '60's did not share.
I find it ironic: given the political musings you not infrequently entertain us with on this forum, you and Pat Boone could probably pass a very warm and pleasant afternoon together, as long as you didn't talk about music.
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Isnt Pat Boone one of those guys early on tried to white wash the black music for white audience in US? Like make it 'accessible' for white folks? I might be wrong, I think I read something about it.
In any case, hearing him for the first time, the guy seems like a clown, if someone thinks he's good, well, what can you do. That's why I always thought the saying 'there is only two kinds of music- good and bad' has no real meaning. Whats bad for you maybe good for the other person.
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On the subject of singers;
My parents who were classical pianists drove me crazy with this but it was all in fun. They liked 'proper' pop vocalists. They had an alarming awareness of harmonic overtones. They like Patsy Cline, Elvis.
Coming from blues and pop I'm way more flexible. Dad liked Dean Martin, Doris Day. Mom didn't like Sinatra. Dad loved early Beatles, mom hated them.
One day they said- Taylor Swift...
I can see that. I liked Mean. One hit wonder.
They liked Ella FitzGerald. I think she's frighteningly detached from what she's singing about.
Here's a singer IMO;
Performing is a different story;
I'm no jazz musician so I can't make money without a decent singer but I don't care about money now. I just want to jam.
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Maybe you did hear some stuff that could be described that way but I don't think that that generalization applies to her overall body of work. Ella's tone and delivery changed quite a bit over the span of her career. The very young Ella sang like a sentimental, sweet, white pop singer, with a very round tone and a pretty "straight" delivery; at least, she had a lot of exposure in that style at that stage of her career. Originally Posted by Stevebol
As she matured, she began to sing more jazz, with a bit more African-American accent and tone, and with a lot more scat singing.
The mature Ella is a hardcore jazz singer with a brassier tone, impeccable bebop chops (both melodically and rhythmically) and an unflappable sense of humor. If you heard young Ella next to old Ella you'd swear they were different people. And that's kind of the point of posting these videos :-)
You don't have to like her but you should be aware of the range of her catalogue. You might find that there is an Ella you actually do like.
It's kind of like how late 50s Miles is different than Cool Miles is different than Fusion Miles. But with Ella it's more of an evolution than an abrupt, intentional change of style that you can tie to the release of a particular record.
I don't claim to be an expert on Ella or Miles; these are just things I've noticed when listening ...Last edited by starjasmine; 12-13-2020 at 03:25 AM.
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I'm no fan of PB but I think you just described most of 50s and 60s rock... Which I love for what it is, and don't hate for what it isn't. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
Carrying that to its conclusion, if PB makes music that other people like, neither he nor they are wrong. Music is subjective.
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Oh I'm not saying anybody wrong or right, exact the opposite. Music like that is off my radar, so I'm not bothered and wouldnt even hear if I didnt check out this thread. Now I know to avoid this name, so prolly wont willingly listen to again, and it's not my concern if someone likes it. Kids I teach never heard of him, so I dont have to worry about it either. Originally Posted by starjasmine
The only slight problem I have when a modern singer or band is excessively consumed and played everywhere, and basically shove down my throat by the media. But it's only annoyance, no real harm done to my ears. And I learned not to say negative things about someones tastes, because it turns people off.
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If James Brown said Pat has a brand new bag that's good enough for me.
Do your thing Pat.
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Having commented on a later post, I had to check out the OP. I couldn't get through either of these. I have to wonder who would go to a show like this - all black soul tunes sung by the whitest whitebread guy ever. Especially bizarre was the choice to hire a black dude to deliver the phrases that Pat presumably couldn't - with ten times the energy and in the proper vocal range (i.e. an octave up from where PB sings the rest of the song.) Originally Posted by Marinero
Again, to each his own. I think this is pretty bizarre, myself. Thanks for posting, M. There's no end to the interesting stuff that JGO forum members unearth :-)
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You do know the original Soul Man is a duet right?
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Sure, but why hire the hip brotha for the other part? Why not some other equally-hipness-challenged singer? That other dude just kicks Pat's a-- with every phrase. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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"that other dude"?? Originally Posted by starjasmine
Sure, but why hire the hip brotha for the other part? Why not some other equally-hipness-challenged singer? That other dude just kicks Pat's a-- with every phrase.
why hire him? Because he's Sam Frikkin Moore.
The same reason James Brown was on Brand New Bag. ?
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"I find it ironic: given the political musings you not infrequently entertain us with on this forum, you and Pat Boone could probably pass a very warm and pleasant afternoon together, as long as you didn't talk about music." Ukena
Hi, U,
Simply by association, the lion-share of my friends are/were musicians, painters, photographers, and writers. And, it's not because I didn't open the door to others but rather that there were bonds of commonality among us that made the associations worthwhile. However, these were not daily contacts as one might have with business associates, neighbors, or family, but rather special occasions where an evening passed was a worthwhile experience.
In all honesty, spending an afternoon with PB would be synonymous to having a root canal performed . . . however, at least with the root canal I had novocaine to bear the pain. Thanks for the reply
Play live . . . Marinero.
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I started with Buddy myself. Some of the current LWO players in Branson are very skilled jazz players but they gots to EAT!!! Originally Posted by Dennis D
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Having “Balls” - an irrepressible confidence? - IS a talent.
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Well, B, Originally Posted by BickertRules
Then, by your definition, chimpanzees should be great guitarists!
Play live . . . Marinero
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