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Man, I could SO do a PhD on all of this :-)
(The sociology of guitar instruction that is, not Benson technique itself.)
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12-15-2020 06:07 AM
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If there is "antithesis" of teacher... and learning... this is it, now we can see in essence. The price is only a bonus, I would be happy if the only problem here would be the price/value ratio.
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(Quote) You get pdfs which ARE the books. Saying you're getting a "bunch PDFs" can only be interpreted as though you somehow are deeming them "lesser than." If you have not yet keyed into the year 2020, books aren't what sells anymore.
(Me) PDF's are Not books. PDFs are individual pages the the buyer prints out themself at their own cost. Throughout your response you use a condescending tone which is unwarranted. I am "keyed into the year 2020" and I see this kind of hyperbolic marketing advertised on Facebook every single day. Exercise regimes, health cures, diet "secrets", which then lead to pages of sales pitches, quotes, photos, and a discount over the normal price which has a "value" much higher than I'm being asked to pay, all for a limited time, or there are limited supplies. I Hate this kind of marketing. And I hate that one of my heroes, George Bensen, is having his name associated with this cheap sales tactic.
(Quote) You can't get Peter's method anywhere else. The guy gave his life to following and studying with GB and THEN codifying what he learned. The man has a right to charge whatever he feels necessary to cover all that he spent (including time) putting together that method.
(Me) I don't dispute that Mr. Farrell has the right to charge whatever he wants, and market in whatever way he chooses, just as I have a right to state my opinion, and you have a right to agree, disagree, or ignore. I have NOT said anything disrespectful about him personally or musically and have no intention or desire to do so. My comments are directed at his marketing, which I find disappointing. I could argue that Mick Goodrick's book "The Advancing Guitarist" represents a lifetime of experience, insight, and observation. He sold many thousands of copies and has influenced a generation of guitarists. He never resorted to these cheap marketing tactics.
(Quote) Ok, so now you're a fashion consultant?
(Me) This came from my suggestion that he wear pants in his videos. Sorry, but I stand by this comment. It wouldn't stop me from watching the videos, but I think it's a bit unprofessional. Take the suggestion or leave it Peter.
(Quote) Again, it's 2020. Get a grip. It's PDFs, self publishing and Kindles.
(Me) Can we lost the "Get a grip" statement? It's just so unnecessary. I do understand about PDFs. I even offer them on my own website for my own customers. But they're usually associated with an alternative way of buying a physical copy of a book for a reduced price.
(Quote) So now there's something wrong with marketing a product and hyping it for the marketplace so you can make a living and provide for your family?
(Me) Everyone is trying to provide for their family, including the people interested in buying your product Peter. I would be one of your customers if I wasn't turned off by the marketing ploy and hype. I've been burned by these tactics before and I make it a point to never buy anything marketed this way.
(Quote) Peter is not interested in YOUR idea of marketing, e.g. "reaching more people." Peter markets to people to value the time and sacrifice he's made in order to produce the GB method. He wants and HAS many faithful repeat customers. Also, I'd bet you $10 that if his pdf was $10, you'd look through it once and open maybe one more time. It's been proven that when consumers pay a premium the respect the product....and USE IT.
(Me) It has been proven? Does this come from some marketing philosophy? Look; you don't have to pay any attention to my comments or suggestions at all. Just let them disappear into the ether of the internet. Probably ten people will read this thread. If you're not interested in MY idea of marketing (which is less an idea than an objection to YOUR idea of marketing), then just do your thing. Down the road when the well runs dry, or some disgruntled customer puts your PDFs out on the internet for anyone to find, you might want to consider offering a more substantial and respectable version of your work.
(Quote) Before you or anyone accuses me of "being Peter," Peter doesn't speak English this well. I'm neither him, nor his rep. I just know what's up.
(Me) Well, I suspect your English is getting better Peter. Good luck.
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You can call me "Peter" all you want (which is weird AF), but I'm still not him. smh
You are out-of-touch with how written commerce happens today. Rick Beato - do you think he bothers with a physical copy of his book? Ben Eunson? Tim Miller? Shipping costs are out of the question in this global economy. Your fantasies about hard copy books should've died along with Borders Books.
Comparisons with Mick's book which came out decades ago re: the marketing thereof simply don't apply...
Your main personal issue is that you just don't like the way he markets...which in turn means you don't like the way most of the internet markets. That's fine. The bizarro part is that you're so up your own hole about how his marketing bugs you that you don't think for a moment how your post could hurt his sales. The jazz guitar community is a small one and the amatuer side of it is even smaller. Instead of encouraging this guy's success, you moan about his shorts and the cost of his products. Enjoy! Smh
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For a pdf the prices are very high compared to other top professional guitarist that are currently offering their concepts or methods
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It would be interesting to know how many JGO members have bought these books, it must be a fairly representative sample of the prospective audience I would have thought.
Certainly there seem to have been very few that have posted anything to this effect.
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[QUOTE=Brazenkane;1082990]You can call me "Peter" all you want (which is weird AF), but I'm still not him. smh
[ME] If you say so.
[QUOTE) You are out-of-touch with how written commerce happens today. Rick Beato - do you think he bothers with a physical copy of his book? Ben Eunson? Tim Miller? Shipping costs are out of the question in this global economy. Your fantasies about hard copy books should've died along with Borders Books.
[ME] Again with the snarky tone. I'm perfectly fine with PDFs and I understand that they help cut costs of printing and shipping, which are significant. I think I mentioned I sell PDFs on my own website, and I've purchased PDFs from other peoples' sites. But I've never seen a set of books (not even college text books), much less PDF downloads, priced the way these are. My point about Mick Goodrick is that he, and most other respected musicians, have not resorted to the cheap marketing tactics used with these books. It seems disrespectful to George Bensen to be trotted out this way.
[Quote] You're right; I do NOT like his marketing. That was the whole reason for my post to begin with. Things marketed this way are usually a rip-off. In this case I think there's probably more depth than in most others, but I'm not willing to invest $1000 to find out. If that's me missing out, so be it. But I hate to see jazz education start down this back-alley of hyperbolic marketing. In fact, it pisses me off. And if you're concerned that these posts will hurt sales, then perhaps you should stop responding to them.Your main personal issue is that you just don't like the way he markets...which in turn means you don't like the way most of the internet markets. That's fine. The bizarro part is that you're so up your own hole about how his marketing bugs you that you don't think for a moment how your post could hurt his sales. The jazz guitar community is a small one and the amatuer side of it is even smaller. Instead of encouraging this guy's success, you moan about his shorts and the cost of his products. Enjoy! Smh
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Peter is offering four days of free lessons of the George benson method. Has anyone here signed up? The time zone is unworkable for me unfortunately, although I’m struck by the incongruity of 4 days of free lessons while reading here about $1000 PDF’s.
Cheers!
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Agreed. The whole thing is confusing. I really wanted to get into this material since I'm a huge GB fan. I wish it were being handled more professionally.
Originally Posted by Jazzism
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As I said in the post about videos, I am against guitarists in shorts. As I said in an earlier post on this thread, I am troubled by Farrell’s sleeves, which in contrast to his shorts, are too long. I am also opposed to the notion that we must not criticise this product because we might hurt its sales, moral pressure which adds to the cultish aura of this enterprise.
George Benson is a very talented guitarist, but he is also the creator of Give Me the Night, which is appalling. He has an unusual right-hand technique, which some think is the secret of his success. Sheryl Bailey uses a similar technique, but it has not caused her to make twenty jazz funk greats. I do not believe Benson has secrets: he has a gift, a work ethic, experience, luck and questionable taste – which was acceptable in the eighties.
The funnel is not confusing. It takes the innocent on a journey which ends with a payment, the first of many. I prefer walking to my local library, where at no cost I can borrow books by Joe Diorio, Warren Nunes, Howard Roberts, Jane Miller and others.
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Oh, I get it. It's like when you get an offer for a free weekend in Las Vegas in exchange for listening to a sales-pitch for a time-share condo. But instead of, say, Regis Philbin, it's George Bensen - or the next best thing; Peter Farrell.
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I still think the weirdest part is the closing of the sales for the books, since they're pdfs and they won't run out of stock. I could understand if he somehow gave lessons with the books included automatically, since he'd be overwhelmed otherwise, but he's not. And if it's because he's scared of pdfs getting leaked online, I think having the books reasonably priced would help curb that. When just one volume is pushing $200 how can you expect people not to try to find at least a couple of pages free to see if the method works for them? I think having the books one or the other (cheaper and limited, or expensive and always available) makes sense, since maybe I'd consider buying the first volume if it was always available instead of me having to make a pressured decision when it's open.
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Yeah, it's a cheap marketing ploy designed to pressure people. They closed the sales before and they were supposed to be closed forever. Now they're open again - for a while. I predict this pattern will repeat itself until the cow runs dry. I'm sorry, but the price is just way too high. Period. It's not the way we're used to seeing jazz education presented. Originally Posted by jco5055
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LOL That's not the way you're used seeing jazz education presented? Have you check out University Jazz school tuition costs? Originally Posted by troxelj
Just don't buy his stuff. I know he would be thrilled about that!
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hi, peter Originally Posted by Brazenkane
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The George Benson Method Pick...$250 each. The GB Method ain't complete without Uncle George's pick. Forget books. That is the real secret behind playing like GB.
Limited Time Only. Act now. Act fast.
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Questionable 80’s taste and smooth jazz funk are very much back in fashion I’m afraid. Originally Posted by Litterick
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Taste is questionable in general... especially in artistic areas.
The thing with GB is that he tries sometimes too obviously to fit the commercial market requirements.
In some LPs I can almost litterely imagine how they discuss with producers: 'lets do thos song and that... it will not be #1 but it is ok... it was in a soundtrack of a popular movie last month' and so on...
I do not like when soemone tries to sell me something too hard...
But the great thing about him is that his natural musicality often takes over... and the result is still good even when the conception and material are corny.
By the way there was funny marketing mistake they made during his Russian tour... in Russia he is mostly known as jazz/funk guitarists and mostly by smaller group of musicians and afficionados.
He has never been popular here as a singer.
But he came with the same vocal program as does usually touring worldwide and the ausdience was mostly disappointed)
The audience in big concert halls often expects him to sing, but here it was the opposite, they expected him to play but he almost did not play at all)Last edited by Jonah; 12-16-2020 at 08:49 AM.
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Don't knock the 80s. They had bighaired women with big bazooms in Dayglo tights and legwarmers. Unfortunately, so did the men... Originally Posted by christianm77
And them knitted skinny neckties...Oh boy. I'd like the 70s back, please. Disco was at least fun.
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My taste is pretty questionable Originally Posted by Jonah
A musician is always going admire Benson’s craft. Craft is one thing in music that’s indisputable.
I think this is a worthwhile social framing lol, but obviously has nothing to do with all the mysterious and personal aspects of music.
But in general I’m a lot more open to everything. I like a lot of ‘cheesy’ music these days haha
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Rob, I’ve purchased a half-dozen of your Mel Bay instructional eBooks through Amazon, and I have to say I found them quite satisfactory and educational! Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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I believe whenever we say someting about tastes (especially in artistic context) ... Originally Posted by christianm77
it is only an excuse to avoid getting into the reasons of our choices and preferences deeply)))
I heard many times: we will not discuss it, it is about tastes... in russian there is a bit negative word 'vkusovshina' (derived from 'vkus' = 'taste') - it does not have any translation but it is used when someone says he likes (or does not like) something on personal reasons without any conventional explanation... but I think in Arts it is actually the basic criterea... the fact that I like (or do not like) something reflects my personality - it is actually very serious basis, the only serious one.
tastes matter in teh society with more or less strict convention of social behavious.. but I do not think we have one today, neither in Europe, nor in Russia, nor in States... maybe in very rudimental artificial form in some limited social groups.
Otherwise it just seems pretencious...
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(George Benson is not "talented" he is one of the greatest)
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The problem is not related to marketing. It is related to the product (more precisely, the lack of it)
The problem is not related with the material form (pdf or anything else) instead related to the "teacher", who is incapable to say two consecutive intelligent sentence since long series of the videos. How can we expect he has a remotely clear vision about how to structure, build and share his "knowledge" with his students in a useful way?
But the main problem, is similar to what we experience in the p*n*is enlargement ads, I mean: the wishful thinking. How can anyone believe, that there is an exploitable secret, which will give the student a shortcut from years of learning, transcribing, listening?. Completely other question: how can anyone believe, that mimicking the mimicker is an achievement? Best case you will end up as 2nd grade Peter Farrell mimicker, but also sharing this questionable title with many people.
(note, that was the best case. Worst case: no one will achieve anything (or worst :-)), and this is the more likely)Last edited by Gabor; 12-16-2020 at 03:21 PM.
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Interesting ... I was a kid in 80s and I hated almost everything about it (except maybe movies)... I liked 60s-70s rock... Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Only now I began to appreciate it...
there is some strange kind of grotesque charm and liberty... like a last wave of it all
Desperatrly seeking Susan... Luc Besson's Subway... Sorcese's After Hours... reflect this fragile, a bit desperate but sincere mood
And Beverly Hills Cop reflects the other side of it)))
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Does this method cover guitar playing while roller skating? If not, it’s incomplete.
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