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  1. #1

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    Silly question, I know. What does it matter? But still, I am curious. His improvisation which, in my humble opinion, doesn't border on genius its well beyond the border into the realm of pure genius. It seems so effortless and every solo is a miniature composition in its own right; even when I listen to multiple takes of the same tune.

    He is not "trained" in the generally accepted sense, but his innovative playing has influenced countless guitarists and non guitarists. There is something happening there.
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  3. #2

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    Perfect pitch and musical genius are apples and oranges.

  4. #3

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    Not a chance. He couldn't even tune his own guitar, they say. That would have driven a person with perfect pitch INSANE.
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  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Not a chance. He couldn't even tune his own guitar, they say. That would have driven a person with perfect pitch INSANE.
    i don't know about that!!!...because he only/mostly used 2 fingers to fret...he did so many slides and jumps over large intervals on the fretboard...and always hit them right on tune...or bent them in a pure tuneful way...thats pretty good pitch!!

    he was perfect musical soul thats for sure!!

    i've always loved his later electric recordings...he sings on the guitar


    cheers

  6. #5
    The rather dismissive replies are bewildering. Perfect pitch or not, I sincerely believe he knew every note he was reaching for, and the scales and intervals he used were never simple and never a bad note that needed corrected. I don't know if a perfect command of the fretboard can relate to perfect pitch, but to say he had a good ear is the understatement of the century.

    I did read that he told Duke Ellington just to play and he would follow along. I dare say he did so very successfully!
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  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by rsclosson View Post
    The rather dismissive replies are bewildering. Perfect pitch or not, I sincerely believe he knew every note he was reaching for, and the scales and intervals he used were never simple and never a bad note that needed corrected. I don't know if a perfect command of the fretboard can relate to perfect pitch, but to say he had a good ear is the understatement of the century.

    I did read that he told Duke Ellington just to play and he would follow along. I dare say he did so very successfully!
    Perfect command of the fretboard don't depend in any way on perfect pitch though. Sorry, but it's unrelated. He could have it, I don't know for sure, but I never read about it anywhere, and I wouldn't think it would matter.

    Thing is, Perfect Pitch is not a next step in the ear development. You could have a fantastic ear for music and not have a Perfect Pitch. Usually people are born with it, and it could be a curse too. Relative pitch is far more important to develop.

  8. #7

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    ^^ good point hep..perfect and relative are different..tho i'd imagine anyone with perfect would also have perfect relative pitch as well


    interesting


    pitches in general are defined by location...the western system far different than say, the north indian classical or japanese koto music

    cheers

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Not a chance. He couldn't even tune his own guitar, they say. That would have driven a person with perfect pitch INSANE.
    Indeed. Tuning is what your little brother is for.

  10. #9

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    Is it possible to technically have perfect pitch if you don’t know note names?

    Django may have had absolute pitch perhaps.

  11. #10

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    He certainly had perfect timing.
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  12. #11

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    I would certainly take perfect time over perfect pitch. More important in this music.

  13. #12

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    He couldn't even tune his own guitar,
    Aw, c'mon - Django couldn't tune his guitar - ridiculous!

    There's a famous story of a Paris jam session with American horn players where they kept changing keys and Django was the only one who lasted through every key modulations; his ear was simply unbeatable. He may have been lazy about tuning up but I dare say he could do it in his sleep.

  14. #13

    From an article I found here: Gypsy Jazz and Django Reinhardt
    "Possessing an exceptionally keen ear and quick musical mind, Django usually could hear a tune once and repeat it immediately back on his guitar. Excited by the new sounds, he began incorporating the music he heard from American artists into his own playing,"

    Sounds almost like the same kind of talent Mozart had.
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  15. #14
    Thanks!!! I read on the djangobooks forum that he could, as reported by another jazz guitarist, quickly tune his guitar.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyV View Post
    Aw, c'mon - Django couldn't tune his guitar - ridiculous!

    There's a famous story of a Paris jam session with American horn players where they kept changing keys and Django was the only one who lasted through every key modulations; his ear was simply unbeatable. He may have been lazy about tuning up but I dare say he could do it in his sleep.
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  16. #15
    Frankly, that makes sense. Just from extensive listening to his playing, I believe that he knew exactly what notes to play and where to go to play them. His opening chord melody in his J'attendrai Swing video is pure genius!

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Is it possible to technically have perfect pitch if you don’t know note names?

    Django may have had absolute pitch perhaps.
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  17. #16
    I will find the article if necessary but in speaking to a doctoral candidate in music performance, he cited an article that explained that speakers of pitch based languages almost all have perfect pitch. It's part of their communication system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    Perfect command of the fretboard don't depend in any way on perfect pitch though. Sorry, but it's unrelated. He could have it, I don't know for sure, but I never read about it anywhere, and I wouldn't think it would matter.

    Thing is, Perfect Pitch is not a next step in the ear development. You could have a fantastic ear for music and not have a Perfect Pitch. Usually people are born with it, and it could be a curse too. Relative pitch is far more important to develop.
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  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Is it possible to technically have perfect pitch if you don’t know note names?
    Yeah ... Before learning the names .. Rick Beatos son Dylan had his own names for each note ... Bb was the star wars note and so on

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov View Post
    Yeah ... Before learning the names .. Rick Beatos son Dylan had his own names for each note ... Bb was the star wars note and so on
    Now that’s interesting. I’d not heard that....

    however this leads into the thorny subject of the fact that I can sing Star Wars in the correct key but that doesn’t mean I have perfect pitch.

    Most people have some limited absolute pitch recall.... presumably it’s some sort of spectrum.

    That absolute pitch recall is fragile ... easily overwhelmed by outside influences.

    Anyway I think the pitch thing is usually based around piano. Having someone develop perfect pitch on guitar might be a visual thing. Hear this note - see it on the fretboard. I have that a little bit but usually need a pitch reference to start.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Now that’s interesting. I’d not heard that....

    however this leads into the thorny subject of the fact that I can sing Star Wars in the correct key but that doesn’t mean I have perfect pitch.
    That just means you're a dork.

    Gabba gabba we accept you.
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  21. #20

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    Stravinsky didn't have perfect pitch.

    For me at least that completely settles the debate about whether perfect pitch is necessary for musical genius.

  22. #21
    Oh! Is this a debate?? I thought I was just starting a friendly conversation that could have been fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    Stravinsky didn't have perfect pitch.

    For me at least that completely settles the debate about whether perfect pitch is necessary for musical genius.
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  23. #22

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    My guess is Django had perfect or near perfect relative pitch.

    Much more useful than perfect pitch.

    Perfect pitch, for many, is a curse, not a blessing.
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  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by rsclosson View Post
    Oh! Is this a debate?? I thought I was just starting a friendly conversation that could have been fun.
    I referred to a debate. I didn't say the thread was a debate. But in any case a friendly conversation that is fun can, surely, take the form of a debate?

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Now that’s interesting. I’d not heard that....

    however this leads into the thorny subject of the fact that I can sing Star Wars in the correct key but that doesn’t mean I have perfect pitch.

    Most people have some limited absolute pitch recall.... presumably it’s some sort of spectrum.

    That absolute pitch recall is fragile ... easily overwhelmed by outside influences.

    Anyway I think the pitch thing is usually based around piano. Having someone develop perfect pitch on guitar might be a visual thing. Hear this note - see it on the fretboard. I have that a little bit but usually need a pitch reference to start.
    There's definitely a spectrum. The guitarist in a stage band I direct can recognise and sing any note played or requested yet he can't tune his guitar accurately without a reference. He's a student of mine, an excellent player who's only been learning for a year and a half and in one of our lessons, he mentioned that his interval awareness was weak. It's not uncommon for people with perfect pitch to have underdeveloped relative pitch skills so I played a middle C and asked him to sing the 3rd. He sang the 5th and I told him that I was looking for an E. He supplied that immediately. I followed with a G and then quickly threw him the names for a bunch of non-diatonic tones. They all came back with 100% accuracy. I asked this student how he identified each one and his source was songs by The Beatles, The Who, The Kinks and The Small Faces (so an absolute knowledge of British mod groups of the '60s as well, interesting enough for a 17 year old!).

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    That just means you're a dork.

    Gabba gabba we accept you.
    Hehe

    I can also do it for Eastenders, but this will mean nothing to you lot....

  27. #26

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    I know quite a few people with perfect pitch

    It’s not that much of a big deal

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB View Post
    There's definitely a spectrum. The guitarist in a stage band I direct can recognise and sing any note played or requested yet he can't tune his guitar accurately without a reference. He's a student of mine, an excellent player who's only been learning for a year and a half and in one of our lessons, he mentioned that his interval awareness was weak. It's not uncommon for people with perfect pitch to have underdeveloped relative pitch skills so I played a middle C and asked him to sing the 3rd. He sang the 5th and I told him that I was looking for an E. He supplied that immediately. I followed with a G and then quickly threw him the names for a bunch of non-diatonic tones. They all came back with 100% accuracy. I asked this student how he identified each one and his source was songs by The Beatles, The Who, The Kinks and The Small Faces (so an absolute knowledge of British mod groups of the '60s as well, interesting enough for a 17 year old!).
    Yeah that’s interesting. Pianists have the obvious anchors of the piano keyboard whether they have relative or perfect pitch... singers use solfege.

    Anyway that sounds like perfect pitch to me. But I’m not an expert obv

  29. #28

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    Let’s just be thankful he didn’t take his A from Ticket to Ride

  30. #29

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    That's nothing compared to the opening of You're Gonna Lose That Girl from the same album. The introduction before the verse kicks in almost makes me feel seasick:


  31. #30
    When I was a teenager, I remember reading an article by a clergyman that said that The Beatles' music was satanic because they used harmonies based on fourths. This song is a perfect example. However, I have no inclination to worship satan when I listen to it. I'm still bewildered by his comment. Why fourths and not tritones??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by PMB View Post
    That's nothing compared to the opening of You're Gonna Lose That Girl from the same album. The introduction before the verse kicks in almost makes me feel seasick:
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  32. #31

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    I remember reading somewhere that we are supposedly all born with perfect pitch but we lose it as we grow older. As an explanation was stated that it could help the baby recognize the unique voice of it's mother or something like that.

    Is this true? I do know that my daughter would always sing the children's songs that she was taught in the same key (I know because I had the habit of playing along with her and it struck me she would always singing a song in a certain key - different keys for different songs but every individual song always in it's own key). Now that she is older, plays piano and guitar, sings a lot and listens a lot to music the key of a song doesn't seem so relevant anymore and she will practice a song in different keys (she's a very good singer by the way, always sings in tune).

    Myself, I have always been skeptical about the importance of perfect pitch for a musician. The father of my first band's bass player had perfect pitch but he could never listen to our group comfortably because of course we were hardly ever tuned exactly to 440hz. He built his own harpsichords but was always tormented when they would not be exactly tuned at 440 while to me they sounded perfectly fine (in tune with itself). This actually led me to believe that perfect pitch was more of a handicap than a benefit for a musician.....

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  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Jay View Post

    Myself, I have always been skeptical about the importance of perfect pitch for a musician.
    I used to think that it seemed like an advantage, but, I don't think it's as big of a deal as many people make it out to be. A lot of musicians I know with perfect pitch say that they still had to develop their relative pitch and they felt that was more important.

    It does seem like a lot of people who were good very, very young, do have perfect pitch (Chris Potter, Brad Mehldau, etc), but, who knows.

  34. #33

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    Perfect pitch has been found in birds, but not relative pitch (when the pitch is shifted they don't recognize their own calls). Perfect pitch is the primitive version of pitch discrimination... it is relative pitch that is the more complex and advanced (and the basis of music). The idea that if one had perfect pitch they would have relative pitch is logically true because if A is false then A->B is true whether B is true or false, so even though the premise is false the proposition is true. The "truthiness" of "A" (perfect pitch) has problems as a concept with respect to human music. What temperament and concert pitch is one's "perfect pitch"? Both the standard concert pitch and current temperament are relatively quite modern... concert pitch has ranged over half an octave and there have been about two dozen temperaments over the last few hundreds of years.

    Django played by ear, self taught, like Charlie Christian, Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, and many other top jazz guitarists - and for those that don't understand, this means not knowing or not having to know the names of the notes or chords. It means knowing (hearing in one's mind) the sound you want to hear out of the instrument.

    The biggest myth in jazz among guitarists is that having to know the names of things is necessary and those that didn't must have had some kind of perfect pitch. The truth is that they played by ear, but so few people even know what that means these days. Likewise the idea of being self taught; music is inherently self revealing if one will stop trying to "understand it" by translating it into visual, verbal, or graphical modes for external representation and distribution, and just truly listen to it phenomenologically as music (because music is sound, not pictures, words, or shapes, figures, forms, or any of the things people try to use as the basis for grasping it).
    "Bent my ear to hear the tune and closed my eyes to see."

  35. #34

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    Many of the great composers in music and improvisers in jazz did not possess perfect pitch. Django grew up in a musical family which in my opinion is vastly more important than perfect pitch. Jack Grassel has an interesting take on perfect pitch (he has PP) on his website (See weblink below). My father was an engineer and a sailboat builder and despite me never actually working in any of his businesses ( I did help him and spent hours watching him work as a child) , I ended up in the same field and have similar mechanical aptitudes as does my sister.

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  36. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB View Post
    There's definitely a spectrum. The guitarist in a stage band I direct can recognise and sing any note played or requested yet he can't tune his guitar accurately without a reference.
    Oddly enough, I can tune my guitar fairly accurately without a reference, like when I change all strings at once, but I can't determine the pitch of a piano note without reference.

  37. #36
    As I read all these very academic definitions of perfect pitch, I think I will clarify my premise. I believe Django knew exactly what note(s) he wanted to play and I think he knew exactly where to go on his fretboard to play them. I believe that many of us here have developed something close to that, just not many that had it to his degree. Whether that fits everybody's definition of perfect pitch or not, I could have easily said that he had a "durn good ear." Which would have probably resulted in a "well duh!!" response.

    Could he name the notes as he heard them? I don't know and don't really care. All I know, based on what I hear in his playing and what I have read in various biographies, is he could jump in a song without music or preparation and play something very outstanding! If it was not perfect pitch, by the above definitions, it was something very akin to it.
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  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by rsclosson View Post
    As I read all these very academic definitions of perfect pitch, I think I will clarify my premise. I believe Django knew exactly what note(s) he wanted to play and I think he knew exactly where to go on his fretboard to play them. I believe that many of us here have developed something close to that, just not many that had it to his degree. Whether that fits everybody's definition of perfect pitch or not, I could have easily said that he had a "durn good ear." Which would have probably resulted in a "well duh!!" response.

    Could he name the notes as he heard them? I don't know and don't really care. All I know, based on what I hear in his playing and what I have read in various biographies, is he could jump in a song without music or preparation and play something very outstanding! If it was not perfect pitch, by the above definitions, it was something very akin to it.
    I sometimes think working too much from theory gets in the way of this. Really this is the skill one needs to be developing as a priority. What else is there?

    And while the experts on the subject I have talked to regard perfect pitch as not something that can be learned in adult life, this is a skill all of us can improve from whatever basis we are coming from.

    Really that’s what transcription and song learning are all about... after you’ve learned your 300th standard by ear, you will be able to do this too.

    Jazz was simpler in the 1930s and 40s, tbf. The music was more about melody, less about changes.

  39. #38

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    Oh - I think these discussions people often make out the playing what you hear on the guitar thing to be more of a big deal than it is.

    In my experience, the thing that in most cases requires the most work is the quality of the hearing itself - audiation away from the instrument which is to say musical imagination and memory. This is where the likes of Mozart, Jimi and Django are really extraordinary.

    Most guitar players are inveterate noodlers so when you hear someone who is hearing something the qualitative difference is stark even if they say they can’t execute everything they hear. You may even find this contrast in different parts of your own playing.

  40. #39

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    Taking some liberties paraphrasing rsclosson with some friendly "fixed that for you" edits...

    "I believe Django heard in his mind's ear exactly what pitch(s) he wanted to play and I think he knew exactly where to go on his fretboard to play them. I believe that many of us here have developed something close to that, just not many that had it to his degree. That fits everybody's definition of relative pitch, I could have easily said that he had a "durn good ear." Which would have probably resulted in a "well duh!!" response.

    Could he name the notes as he heard them? I don't know and don't really care. All I know, based on what I hear in his playing and what I have read in various biographies, is he could jump in a song without music or preparation and play something very outstanding! It was not perfect pitch, by its wrong definitions, it was something superior to it... relative pitch and audiation."

    ---

    Now that is much further along the path. To jump in a song without music or preparation and play something very outstanding is the hallmark of relative pitch, musically cultivated, developed, and practiced over time performing with others. It generally describes a jazz guitarist's dream goal.

    ---

    To the world, please, no more about the myth of perfect pitch. I read the whole page linked in another thread from a music teacher claiming perfect pitch for himself and some of his students. His "proofs" all indicated that he confounds perfect pitch with relative pitch, disproves himself mentioning circumstances when he does not get it within a couple of semi-tones, uses examples where confirmed pitches occur immediately before, mistakes psycho-physics for aging (misunderstanding sweetened tuning/German tuning), etc... He does not know what he is writing about but pushes the myth. All sources I have read have the same kinds of misunderstandings that demonstrate the authors have not dug deep enough to reveal how foolish they have been.

    We should never mention perfect pitch again; nobody intrinsically hears perfect pitch because there is no objective external perfect pitch system - all are a choice among assignments of concert pitch and selection of temperament, neither of which are fixed against to which a pitch could be matched as perfect. The idea is a conceptual and logical error.
    "Bent my ear to hear the tune and closed my eyes to see."

  41. #40

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    Let's see... I started ear training at 20 and now I'm...er... do I have to say my age?

    Anyway, I am still developing my relative pitch--both systematically, and through transcribing.

    The notes pop out more, and have more meaning to me now-a-days--when I play and when I listen.

    I actually wanted to start a thread about not looking at your fretboard. I find that when I close my eyes, I can connect with my inner ear and really focus on the sounds I'm making--not the mechanics or the theory. Granted, mechanics and theory are incredibly important--in the practice room. But when I play, all that gets in the way of the music. I LOVE shifting around the fretboard--and I've practiced it enough that I can jump around horizontally and still land on the notes I hear--on ballads and medium tunes--I can't do that at some of the tempos Djangy did...whew.

    It's not just the notes--it's control of the arch of your improvisation. Relative Pitch is more than note to note. It's note to chord progression--even more so--its note to KEY CENTER (or note collection--if you are thinking more modern music). If you are focused more on the sound you are creating--rather than the theory and technique--you'll end up listening more--to yourself and everyone around you. If you get good at listening--to yourself and others--then you can work on the most important part of it all...

    ...the music, telling your story, communicating with others in ways words can't... all that good stuff.

    That said, what really gets me all excited is time feel and rhythm. It's the PLACEMENT of notes in TIME that mark the great player from the not-so-great. Did we ever start a sub forum on rhythm and time? Just this morning, I was listening back to my playing and I thought "EWWWWW! My eighth lines are so JANKY!"

    Django had a great time feel.

    Billy Bean had a great time feel.

    George Benson had a great time feel--I think Billy Bean and George Benson are tied for the best eighth note in my opinion. They place their eighth notes differently, but they both move the music like mad once they start laying down them eighths.

    Wes Montgomery had a great time feel.

    Grant Green had a great time feel.

    ...and that's just guitarists.

    Wait... what were we talking about?

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Sounds to me like you're doing the right thing, and doing it right...
    "Bent my ear to hear the tune and closed my eyes to see."

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Did we ever start a sub forum on rhythm and time?
    No, why didn't we?

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauln View Post
    Sounds to me like you're doing the right thing, and doing it right...
    If that was sincere and not sarcastic (sometimes that can get lost on the internets) then that means a lot--coming from you.

    I don't want to side rail the OP, but I feel like when I was first learning jazz--I had all this freedom. This was before I learned a bunch of theory and before systematic contextual ear training. I just played along to records, played all the wrong notes, and had the time of my life.

    Then, as I got deeper in my studies, my theory started to ruin all my fun. I doubted everything I played. I felt trapped.

    That's not what learning theory is supposed to do, but I know I am not alone in my trajectory. I wonder what would have happened if I learned how to play jazz by ear, at least at the foundational level--and then learned the theory thereafter.

    I think working on your ear is freeing. I think working on your is a life long pursuit. I think working on your ear is essential to playing music--any good music (any genre)--right.

    That said, Chris77--why don't you talk to the site admin about starting a thread on rhythm and time. We created a whole thread arguing about this, remember?

    We could finally have a place to talk about swing feel, syncopation, laying back, all the stuff we've started to talk about recently. Fact is, we can't play jazz without close study of time and rhythm. I often get swept up in everything else that I forget that.

  45. #44

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    last comment, this video is for Chris77:


  46. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I sometimes think working too much from theory gets in the way of this. Really this is the skill one needs to be developing as a priority. What else is there?

    And while the experts on the subject I have talked to regard perfect pitch as not something that can be learned in adult life, this is a skill all of us can improve from whatever basis we are coming from.

    Really that’s what transcription and song learning are all about... after you’ve learned your 300th standard by ear, you will be able to do this too.

    Jazz was simpler in the 1930s and 40s, tbf. The music was more about melody, less about changes.
    Probably the best comment on this thread. When I finally "listened" to Joe Pass and many other great musicians through their articles and interviews and stopped studying theory, chords, scales and modes, and started learning tunes, my improvement started to speed up exponentially, and its still improving.
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  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    If that was sincere and not sarcastic (sometimes that can get lost on the internets) then that means a lot--coming from you.

    I don't want to side rail the OP, but I feel like when I was first learning jazz--I had all this freedom. This was before I learned a bunch of theory and before systematic contextual ear training. I just played along to records, played all the wrong notes, and had the time of my life.

    Then, as I got deeper in my studies, my theory started to ruin all my fun. I doubted everything I played. I felt trapped.

    That's not what learning theory is supposed to do, but I know I am not alone in my trajectory. I wonder what would have happened if I learned how to play jazz by ear, at least at the foundational level--and then learned the theory thereafter.

    I think working on your ear is freeing. I think working on your is a life long pursuit. I think working on your ear is essential to playing music--any good music (any genre)--right.

    That said, Chris77--why don't you talk to the site admin about starting a thread on rhythm and time. We created a whole thread arguing about this, remember?

    We could finally have a place to talk about swing feel, syncopation, laying back, all the stuff we've started to talk about recently. Fact is, we can't play jazz without close study of time and rhythm. I often get swept up in everything else that I forget that.
    I did, and was told there were too many sections already lol

  48. #47

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    when I take vocal classes... the teacher asked me before the first lesson: So you have a perfect pitch? I said: No...
    She says: great! if all goes well I will soon put you into our stundents' vocal group))))

    Sreiously
    I think most of jazz players of old school at least had very good ears.... we just do not think and do not know about it.
    I think it was more important for jazz than for classical wehre there is a system of education that can help you to overcome hearing problem...

    Jazz players came form nothing except practice and enviroment... so those who could hear - could play... those who could not did something else.

    It is interestng that we often forget about it when we discuss the style and approach of this and that player...
    trying to copy it... or trying to re-create his routine...

    (When someone sayd: Wes copied all CC solos! Let's do that.... No need to say that picking up CC solo is a great self-learning tool but usually no-one says how well Wes could hear it and how quickly he could grasp it by ear from the record. Maybe you as a student might need something else first? like picking Marry had a little lamb? rather then go to CC and die from frustration?)

    while analyzing we forget that it is quite possible that there was no educational sysytem and that we can copy his routine but we cannot copy his natural gifts for hearing or rythm....

    It does not mean that we cannot develope it and bevome good at musicbut we just probably need some other tools for that.



    So Djangi was pretty close to perfect pitch I believe... again I think it is important for self-taught jazz old school players.

    If we look at classucal there were great composers who did not have perfect pitch but sysytem of classical education was focused more on developing musicality and realtive pistch so they did not have to worry about it.

    Jazzists sdid not have that support - they could rely only on their ears.

  49. #48

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    I wonder if there is connection between trainiing ones ear and Learning on a fretless instument; I played the violin as a child and teen and since I was too lazy to learn the required songs from the sheet music I purchased records and learned from them. This along with the violin having no frets helped develop my ear (but today I'm still a poor site reader). But I have sound relative pitch.

    (sorry for spelling etc.. I'm in Italy using an Euro keyboard (good for French accents|), but spellcheck is set on Italian.

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal View Post
    I wonder if there is connection between trainiing ones ear and Learning on a fretless instument; I played the violin as a child and teen and since I was too lazy to learn the required songs from the sheet music I purchased records and learned from them. This along with the violin having no frets helped develop my ear (but today I'm still a poor site reader). But I have sound relative pitch.

    (sorry for spelling etc.. I'm in Italy using an Euro keyboard (good for French accents|), but spellcheck is set on Italian.
    I think it probably does.