John Abercrombie low action

[Durban]

John Abercrombie, played with super low action as did Wes Tal K. Burrell J. Hall GB also low

For John's guitars we do some unique "precision fret work". Here's what I mean - he plays with such a low action (Normal is anywhere from 3/64" to 5/64" for the average guitar. John's likes his guitars set from 1.5/64ths to 2/64ths (absurdly low for the average guitar player - but then again, John's not the average guitar player). What we did on this McCurdy Archtop , as on some of John's other guitars, is set the fret height to gradually decrease as you climbed up the fingerboard - in other words his frets would lose about one thousandth of an inch for every four or five frets as you go up the board - not an easy task - but for John - It was worth the effort to see him smile when playing it.

[neatomic]

legato and bending were abercrombie stylistic mainstays...he was one of first "jazzers" i heard hit a note on a bend, and then let it slip into pitch ...he was of the rock era (the height of it!)...lighter strings and low action were the norm


cheers

[rpjazzguitar]

That sounds really interesting.

Is it something that a Plek system could be programmed to do?

[sgcim]

John Abercrombie, played with super low action as did Wes Tal K. Burrell J. Hall GB also low

For John's guitars we do some unique "precision fret work". Here's what I mean - he plays with such a low action (Normal is anywhere from 3/64" to 5/64" for the average guitar. John's likes his guitars set from 1.5/64ths to 2/64ths (absurdly low for the average guitar player - but then again, John's not the average guitar player). What we did on this McCurdy Archtop , as on some of John's other guitars, is set the fret height to gradually decrease as you climbed up the fingerboard - in other words his frets would lose about one thousandth of an inch for every four or five frets as you go up the board - not an easy task - but for John - It was worth the effort to see him smile when playing it.

Abercrombie used very light gauge strings, in addition to having low action. Tal, Kenny, Wes and Hall used regular gauges, but Hall had to go down to very light gauges when he was ill, towards the end of his life.

[Sam Sherry]

That actually is the fret mill as I learned it from a machinist-turned-guitar repairer, Ron Bolduc.

It's straightforward: Instead of a flat file use a "hand smooth" file, which has about 1/64" relief built in at the tip. Start your mill with the body of the file over frets 2-9 or so, each stroke just kissing the first fret. When you've milled a narrow line across fret 1, that means you've built 1/64" relief on fret 2. Continue moving down the board, 15-20 strokes per fret-location. Voila!

Milling frets that way means you need a lot less tension on the truss rod because you're not using it to flatten the neck. You also set the bridge lower, resulting in lower string tension.

I've milled both Ron's way and the 'flat board' way. On a new fret install I prefer Ron's. Just on a mill job, some boards are really planed for the 'flat board' job and you wind up having to whack away over the octave.

Ah well. We now return you to, "Barney Kessell or Dennis Budimir: Who Was More Modern"

[paulkogut]

I got to know Jim Hall in the late 80's, he was playing a flatwound set of .011 with a plain G. He said that studies with Vincente Gomez inspired him to seek out a lower tension set to facilitate a classical (parallel to neck) vibrato. I think he went down too an .009 after the back surgery, but was playing 'lighter than standard' gauges for a good portion of his career.

John's strategy to get a full sound with the light strings was to use a boost pedal up front (a Boss EQ stompbox set flat with the output cranked) and a light touch with the thumb. He used a volume pedal as a master volume (starting the gig with it maybe 75% up) so he could get louder without having to dig in and overplay the strings.


PK

[sgcim]

That actually is the fret mill as I learned it from a machinist-turned-guitar repairer, Ron Bolduc.

It's straightforward: Instead of a flat file use a "hand smooth" file, which has about 1/64" relief built in at the tip. Start your mill with the body of the file over frets 2-9 or so, each stroke just kissing the first fret. When you've milled a narrow line across fret 1, that means you've built 1/64" relief on fret 2. Continue moving down the board, 15-20 strokes per fret-location. Voila!

Milling frets that way means you need a lot less tension on the truss rod because you're not using it to flatten the neck. You also set the bridge lower, resulting in lower string tension.

I've milled both Ron's way and the 'flat board' way. On a new fret install I prefer Ron's. Just on a mill job, some boards are really planed for the 'flat board' job and you wind up having to whack away over the octave.

Ah well. We now return you to, "Barney Kessell or Dennis Budimir: Who Was More Modern"

Dennis Budimir- he wore the latest style shoes from Europe.

[ecj]

GB also low

This isn't accurate. Benson talks about using high-ish action with his heavy strings to create a clearer, stronger tone in several of his video interviews. I think he says he picked it up from Grant Green. Having messed around with it, I see where he's coming from.

[Durban]

This isn't accurate. Benson talks about using high-ish action with his heavy strings to create a clearer, stronger tone in several of his video interviews. I think he says he picked it up from Grant Green. Having messed around with it, I see where he's coming from.

i find Benson vague & cryptic about much, nothing bad,and actually does not say a lot, it may appear so.


George Benson most certainly plays low action. Although he (has and can) play with higher is what he probably meant.

Richie Hart who knows Benson extremely well, said GB uses lo action.


Regarding Wes you can hear it quite clearly on very many recordings the strings are almost on the deck,
an L5 can easily get super lo, having 25.5" scale believe it or not ES-175 and 24.75" scale cant go as low,
this is very subjective at time because tension plays part in it.

a lot of good players use very low, Tal Farlows strings were on the deck, Tommy Emmanuel although not Jazz, has insanely low action whereby most players CANT play Tommys guitar, it buzzes all over, this is done to his light touch. He just laughs.

[TH]

John and Mick were musical brothers in so many ways. I do the work on Mick's guitars and his gauges and action are so low they play if you breathe on them. You have to play with a VERY sensitive touch and he keeps the volume at the amp with all the power to spare, control is all at the instrument. If you play a note a little loud, it's really loud. John and Mick used to play duo a lot and back in the day they had matching Ibanez solid bodies. Japanese Les Pauls, Mick would call them. That's where the light touch rock sensibility had its origins.
Later they had a quartet with Adam and Swallow. That light touch and the articulation that came from it imparted a sound that was very unique in jazz. Legato brothers.

David

[Durban]

he keeps the volume at the amp with all the power to spare, control is all at the instrument.

David

Hi David i couldnt compute this, do you mean Amp vol up Guitar down or vice versa?

[Endorphins]

John and Mick were musical brothers in so many ways. I do the work on Mick's guitars and his gauges and action are so low they play if you breathe on them. You have to play with a VERY sensitive touch and he keeps the volume at the amp with all the power to spare, control is all at the instrument. If you play a note a little loud, it's really loud. John and Mick used to play duo a lot and back in the day they had matching Ibanez solid bodies. Japanese Les Pauls, Mick would call them. That's where the light touch rock sensibility had its origins.
Later they had a quartet with Adam and Swallow. That light touch and the articulation that came from it imparted a sound that was very unique in jazz. Legato brothers.

David

you're referring to Mick Goodrick?

[TH]

you're referring to Mick Goodrick?

Yes. Mick and John were best friends and pretty much formed an approach to the guitar that was unique and an embodiment of their attitudes and love for the instrument when they were schoolmates at Berklee (there were only six people in the guitar department!). A lot of people may not realize the profound impact the meeting of these two were. They combined the Jim Hall lineage with rock and the rest is history.

Hi David i couldnt compute this, do you mean Amp vol up Guitar down or vice versa?

Yes, amp has the volume up, touch on the instrument is everything.

David

[Endorphins]

Yes. Mick and John were best friends and pretty much formed an approach to the guitar that was unique and an embodiment of their attitudes and love for the instrument when they were schoolmates at Berklee (there were only six people in the guitar department!). A lot of people may not realize the profound impact the meeting of these two were. They combined the Jim Hall lineage with rock and the rest is history.

Thought so.

Look for the John Abercrombie group on Facebook, I moderate it. All welcome.

[P.J.]

Jo I do the work on Mick's guitars and his gauges and action are so low they play if you breathe on them.

David

That is hysterical.

[grahambop]

i find Benson vague & cryptic about much, nothing bad,and actually does not say a lot, it may appear so.

George Benson most certainly plays low action. Although he (has and can) play with higher is what he probably meant.

Richie Hart who knows Benson extremely well, said GB uses lo action.

Just saw this, it reminded me I have an old Guitar magazine from mid-1970s where George Benson definitely says he uses high action. Maybe he changed his setup later? Anyway here’s the relevant bit of the interview (The interviewer was Ike Isaacs):

[whiskey02]

Hi David i couldnt compute this, do you mean Amp vol up Guitar down or vice versa?

Forgive me for answering a question that was not asked of me, but control in this case is in the touch of the instrument. Meaning one way or another, the volume that's immediately available, perhaps 100db from a strong attack, is controlled by playing gently, so that only 85db is what you get. As Jim Hall said, he used to power of the amplifier to allow him to "play" more softly. Your picking hand is your volume control.

[JaxJaxon]

That sounds really interesting.

Is it something that a Plek system could be programmed to do?

I would think so,but the tec runing the plek machine has to know how to set it up that way. I would also think you could do it useing a crowning file by useing a few more passes on each lower fret.