Jimi Hendrix and John McLaughlin

[Doctor Jeff]

I'd take any of those guys over Phil Collins (though to be fair, my opinion of him may be too colored by my dislike of his gated-reverb overuse).

John

Have you heard his playing with Brand X? Or his work on Peter Gabriel and Brian Eno albums? I have said elsewhere that Phil is the greatest living drummer, and I will stick with it (though Peter Erskine would be a good contender as well).

Re' Jimi he was more disciplined than he probably should have been. Jimmy Page was a heroin addict as well--I think a lot of the albums were made despite him being trashed most of the time, especially toward the end. (Though clearly he was a tech geek and knew what he was doing with Led Zepp.)

Jimi like Prince actually loved the studio and was quite a studio rat. Who can say what he would have accomplished had he lived? A lot of artists survived their indiscretions in the 60's to stay alive and creative. (Though a lot of them ended up with hep C and liver failure...Gregg Allman for instance.)

[lammie200]

... (Though a lot of them ended up with hep C and liver failure...Gregg Allman for instance.)

And a lot have had hearing issues. I believe that Hendrix suffered from hearing loss as well.

[mrcee]

I've heard that at the time of his death Jimi was completely deaf in his left ear and that the right was going fast.

[John A.]

Have you heard his playing with Brand X? Or his work on Peter Gabriel and Brian Eno albums? I have said elsewhere that Phil is the greatest living drummer, and I will stick with it (though Peter Erskine would be a good contender as well).

Yes I have. Brand X is not really my taste, nor Eno particularly. I like a lot of Gabriel Era Genesis, though. I never said Phil Collins wasn't a good drummer, just that if we're talking about people who are known mainly as rock drummers playing jazz, there are any number I'd rather hear. I like a certain greasy, swinging, funky, behind-the-beat grooviness (I don't really have the drumming vocabulary to describe it better) in my drumming. Keltner, Ziggy Modeliste, Bill Stewart, Idris Muhammed, Jimmy Cobb those are my touchstones. Mitch Mitchell, Levon Helm (forgot to mention him among the rockers), Ginger Baker, they have it. Phil Collins doesn't play like that. De gustibus, yada yada. And his gated reverb-snare schtick is just unbearable to me.

Re' Jimi he was more disciplined than he probably should have been. Jimmy Page was a heroin addict as well--I think a lot of the albums were made despite him being trashed most of the time, especially toward the end. (Though clearly he was a tech geek and knew what he was doing with Led Zepp.)

Jimi like Prince actually loved the studio and was quite a studio rat.

I'm not sure disciplined is the right word -- by many accounts he was a perfectionist in the studio, doing zillions of takes and parts in search of the perfect one. For him, also, recording was essentially his way of composing. That's why he built Electric Lady -- he was essentially broke from his record company recouping studio costs from his royalties.

Who can say what he would have accomplished had he lived? A lot of artists survived their indiscretions in the 60's to stay alive and creative. (Though a lot of them ended up with hep C and liver failure...Gregg Allman for instance.)

The full extent of his drug taking is not clear. He was a heavy user of all kinds of stuff, probably including heroin (snorted rather than injected), but by most accounts not to the point of addiction (at least not yet). But if you read the various bios and memoirs of people who knew him, the record is full of contradiction as to how much his lifestyle affected his work, even what he was like as a person straight vs high. It's very difficult to know the truth or predict what would have happened. Musically, there's also contradiction -- the hypothetical Miles project vs what he was actually working on when he died. I think most of that is way below the level of Electric Ladyland and Axis, but it was unfinished, so who knows? Definitely one of the great "what ifs?" of music.

John

[Doctor Jeff]

Yes I have. Brand X is not really my taste, nor Eno particularly. I like a lot of Gabriel Era Genesis, though. I never said Phil Collins wasn't a good drummer, just that if we're talking about people who are known mainly as rock drummers playing jazz, there are any number I'd rather hear. I like a certain greasy, swinging, funky, behind-the-beat grooviness (I don't really have the drumming vocabulary to describe it better) in my drumming. Keltner, Ziggy Modeliste, Bill Stewart, Idris Muhammed, Jimmy Cobb those are my touchstones. Mitch Mitchell, Levon Helm (forgot to mention him among the rockers), Ginger Baker, they have it. Phil Collins doesn't play like that. De gustibus, yada yada. And his gated reverb-snare schtick is just unbearable to me.



I'm not sure disciplined is the right word -- by many accounts he was a perfectionist in the studio, doing zillions of takes and parts in search of the perfect one. For him, also, recording was essentially his way of composing. That's why he built Electric Lady -- he was essentially broke from his record company recouping studio costs from his royalties.



The full extent of his drug taking is not clear. He was a heavy user of all kinds of stuff, probably including heroin (snorted rather than injected), but by most accounts not to the point of addiction (at least not yet). But if you read the various bios and memoirs of people who knew him, the record is full of contradiction as to how much his lifestyle affected his work, even what he was like as a person straight vs high. It's very difficult to know the truth or predict what would have happened. Musically, there's also contradiction -- the hypothetical Miles project vs what he was actually working on when he died. I think most of that is way below the level of Electric Ladyland and Axis, but it was unfinished, so who knows? Definitely one of the great "what ifs?" of music.

John

I agree Collins is not a swing-style player but his sense of time is impeccable. I would classify him as more a fusion drummer.

I also second your observations about Jimi's work habits and his drug use. It's tempting to lump every drug user into one category, i.e., drug addict, but he might not have been addicted in terms of a high tolerance, needing a regular fix, etc. From what I know his work was not affected so much by his drug use at that point.

There are a lot of people who had an addiction, and we were not aware of it at the time because it didn't seem to affect their creative output. Dylan and Lennon were reportedly addicts, as well as Tom Petty, who cleaned up but still fell victim to it in the end. And of course John Entwhistle, Prince and Michael Jackson--not your typical non-functional addicts.