Oscar Moore on film

**edward74** · 04-05-2018, 06:05 PM

Hello Oscar Moore fans,

I've been on a Nat King Cole Trio kick lately and have been watching Youtube clips that feature his playing. I'm sure some of the old films of the band were dubbed, though, there are spots that seem like the audio is in sync with his playing (possibly truly played and recorded live), so it made me wonder if some of his technique (rhythm chord choices, single lines, slides, slurs, etc) can be studied and broken down/mimicked. I've been listening to the NKCT on commutes and appreciating this guitarist more than ever, so once I saw that old clips could be a resource, it got me curious if an experienced player can extract his methods and recreate those ideas in ones own playing.

By the way, I dig Nat's piano chops, too! Really fun watching his piano performances and I'm sure there's something to gain there if you wanted to study Cole's technique.

--Ed

**neatomic** · 04-05-2018, 06:44 PM

^ great clips!

interesting offbeat insight into oscar moore

tragic yet funny

cut to the 9 minute mark (but watch the whole vid afterwards...juniors great!!)

cheers

**wintermoon** · 04-05-2018, 07:14 PM

Off topic but I always wondered how the finish got worn off on the upper bout on his ES150. The guitar couldn't have been more than a few yrs old at that point.

**mr. beaumont** · 04-05-2018, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by edward74

Hello Oscar Moore fans,

I've been on a Nat King Cole Trio kick lately and have been watching Youtube clips that feature his playing. I'm sure some of the old films of the band were dubbed, though, there are spots that seem like the audio is in sync with his playing (possibly truly played and recorded live), so it made me wonder if some of his technique (rhythm chord choices, single lines, slides, slurs, etc) can be studied and broken down/mimicked. I've been listening to the NKCT on commutes and appreciating this guitarist more than ever, so once I saw that old clips could be a resource, it got me curious if an experienced player can extract his methods and recreate those ideas in ones own playing.

By the way, I dig Nat's piano chops, too! Really fun watching his piano performances and I'm sure there's something to gain there if you wanted to study Cole's technique.

--Ed

Thanks for this. I absolutely needed it.

**edward74** · 04-06-2018, 10:50 AM

Disheartened whenever I hear or read about Oscar's later years. Hollywood & the big record industry back then could easily elevate talents like him and then if you don't bend easily to their business dealings behind the scenes, then you're kicked to the curb. Junior's story bummed me out, though, I guess Moore had enough pride and sense to carry on with a humble livelihood somehow. If only Oscar lived longer and was around folks who really, really showed him the gratitude and his contributions to jazz guitar.

Wonder if any of his kin know how much he is revered?

**Wow&flutter** · 04-09-2018, 04:01 PM

Some Oscar Moore on vinyl (Norgran Records 1955), check out the Barney Kessel photo from the back cover:

**edward74** · 04-10-2018, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Wow&flutter

Some Oscar Moore on vinyl (Norgran Records 1955), check out the Barney Kessel photo from the back cover:

Cool album! Love the cover! I'm going to have to scour the net maybe find some bio about Oscar's brother Johnny to get more insight...maybe there's not a whole lot there. Those liner notes on the bottom are a nice little detail about Oscar's influence. Got to check out more Tal Farlow, too. Thanks for sharing the pic!

**jameslovestal** · 04-10-2018, 12:06 PM

That album contains works from Tal, Barney and Oscar.

The Tal works were released as a full album (so there are other songs by this quartet), which I have.

I also have Oscar Blues from a Oscar CD I own, but not the other Oscar tunes below.

Kessell \ Wyble playing together? Even knew about this and I lived with a jazz guitarist when I was a teen that was taking lessons from Wyble in L.A. (my first exposure to jazz guitar, about 35 years go). Sounds interesting.

Barney Kessel, Jim Wyble (guitar) Morty Corb (bass) Shelly Manne (drums)
Los Angeles, CA, July 23, 1952
810-5 Heat Wave
811-2 East Of The Sun
812-8 All The Things You Are
813-8 Crazy Rhythm

Carl Perkins (piano) Oscar Moore (guitar) Joe Comfort (bass) George Jenkins (drums)
Los Angeles, CA, April 22, 1955
2314-6 Sonny Boy
2315-10 Beautiful Moons Ago
2316-3 A Foggy Day
2317-1 Oscar's Blues

Claude Williamson (piano) Tal Farlow (guitar) Red Mitchell (bass) Stan Levey (drums)
Los Angeles, CA, April 25, 1955
2318-2 Lullaby Of The Leaves
2319-1 Stompin' At The Savoy
2320-4 This Is Always
2321-7 Tea For Two

**neatomic** · 04-10-2018, 05:04 PM

rather odd duo lp with oscar and great bassist leroy vinegar

oscar overdubs an extra guitar on each track

Presenting Oscar Moore with Leroy Vinegar-1957

cheers

**sgcim** · 04-10-2018, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by neatomic

rather odd duo lp with oscar and great bassist leroy vinegar

oscar overdubs an extra guitar on each track

Presenting Oscar Moore with Leroy Vinegar-1957

cheers

Yeah, that double tracked LP didn't work out so great, but Sweet Loraine was the best cut on the album.
I was introduced to him on an album put out by Verve called the Great Guitars of Jazz that had his great rendition of A Foggy Day from the Swing Guitars album. OM played a very imaginative solo that was pretty out there for the time.

**Wow&flutter** · 04-11-2018, 05:21 PM

Just reading the post by Jameslovestal more closely, and I realized that I also have a two-degree type of connection there (those fifties albums are real time capsules); Stan Levey's son happened to live in the area and would sit in on drums from time to time where I did a regular gig around fifteen years ago. Stan was a pioneering bop drummer, but because I am not set up to play records right now, But I can't confirm his presence on that particular LP playing with Tal- he's not listed in the liner notes on my copy. (apologies for thread hijacking). There is a great film clip of Stan Levey playing with Scott Lafaro out there as well, for all you Scott Lafaro fans.

F

**sgcim** · 04-11-2018, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Wow&flutter

Just reading the post by Jameslovestal more closely, and I realized that I also have a two-degree type of connection there (those fifties albums are real time capsules); Stan Levey's son happened to live in the area and would sit in on drums from time to time where I did a regular gig around fifteen years ago. Stan was a pioneering bop drummer, but because I am not set up to play records right now, But I can't confirm his presence on that particular LP playing with Tal- he's not listed in the liner notes on my copy. (apologies for thread hijacking). There is a great film clip of Stan Levey playing with Scott Lafaro out there as well, for all you Scott Lafaro fans.

F

I read Stan's autobiography, and got his film biography off of Netflix. What an incredible life!
I think his son had something to do with Toto and Jeff Porcaro.
Here's Stan with BK:

**neatomic** · 04-11-2018, 06:08 PM

stan was also a pro boxer

had that drumstick style!! haha

cheers

**jameslovestal** · 04-11-2018, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Wow&flutter

Just reading the post by Jameslovestal more closely, and I realized that I also have a two-degree type of connection there (those fifties albums are real time capsules); Stan Levey's son happened to live in the area and would sit in on drums from time to time where I did a regular gig around fifteen years ago. Stan was a pioneering bop drummer, but because I am not set up to play records right now, But I can't confirm his presence on that particular LP playing with Tal- he's not listed in the liner notes on my copy. (apologies for thread hijacking). There is a great film clip of Stan Levey playing with Scott Lafaro out there as well, for all you Scott Lafaro fans.

F

I grew up in the Seal Beach \ Long Beach area of Southern California, and 2 of my friends took lessons from Horace Hatchett back in the early 70s. They stopped because sadly he passed.

I have copies of his guitar instruction material. Neat stuff. So that is another 2-degrees type of knowledge transfer. I'm still close friends with these guys and we all consider ourselves as Hatchett disciples.

Carol Kaye took a few lessons from him when she was a teen. Here are some of the others Hatchett influenced.

Horace ("Hatch") was the primo of teachers on the West Coast, teaching some of the studio's finest, Jimmy Wyble, John Gray, Oscar Moore, Rueben Quintero etc. and was constantly in touch with the guitar greats of that era too: George Smith, Barney Kessel, Les Paul, Dave Barbour (Peggy Lee's husband), etc.

**sgcim** · 04-11-2018, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by jameslovestal

I grew up in the Seal Beach \ Long Beach area of Southern California, and 2 of my friends took lessons from Horace Hatchett back in the early 70s. They stopped because sadly he passed.

I have copies of his guitar instruction material. Neat stuff. So that is another 2-degrees type of knowledge transfer. I'm still close friends with these guys and we all consider ourselves as Hatchett disciples.

Carol Kaye took a few lessons from him when she was a teen. Here are some of the others Hatchett influenced.

Horace ("Hatch") was the primo of teachers on the West Coast, teaching some of the studio's finest, Jimmy Wyble, John Gray, Oscar Moore, Rueben Quintero etc. and was constantly in touch with the guitar greats of that era too: George Smith, Barney Kessel, Les Paul, Dave Barbour (Peggy Lee's husband), etc.

John Gray was a very underrated guitar player. I have his "The New Wave" album, and he plays great on it.
Unfortunately, he suffered a stroke at a young age, which left him unable to play, and passed away some time after that. He played on a lot of good albums, but only made that one record under his own name.

**neatomic** · 04-11-2018, 09:25 PM

john gray & herb ellis

cheers

**sgcim** · 04-12-2018, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by neatomic

john gray & herb ellis

cheers

That cut completely freaked me out when I first heard it! I played a musical called Swing, and they ripped off Gray's arrangement of 'Caravan' note for note!

**DRS** · 04-12-2018, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by edward74

Hello Oscar Moore fans,

I've been on a Nat King Cole Trio kick lately and have been watching Youtube clips that feature his playing. I'm sure some of the old films of the band were dubbed, though, there are spots that seem like the audio is in sync with his playing (possibly truly played and recorded live), so it made me wonder if some of his technique (rhythm chord choices, single lines, slides, slurs, etc) can be studied and broken down/mimicked. I've been listening to the NKCT on commutes and appreciating this guitarist more than ever, so once I saw that old clips could be a resource, it got me curious if an experienced player can extract his methods and recreate those ideas in ones own playing.

By the way, I dig Nat's piano chops, too! Really fun watching his piano performances and I'm sure there's something to gain there if you wanted to study Cole's technique.

--Ed

Not Oscar Moore but Dave Rubin's book Birth of the Groove has a section on brother Johnny Moore.

**Papawooly** · 04-12-2018, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by sgcim

I read Stan's autobiography, and got his film biography off of Netflix. What an incredible life!
I think his son had something to do with Toto and Jeff Porcaro.
Here's Stan with BK:

Can you tell me the name of the Netflix Bio??

Thank you!!

**sgcim** · 04-12-2018, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Papawooly

Can you tell me the name of the Netflix Bio??

Thank you!!

Stan Levey: Original Original.
It's only available on their DVD service, not on their streaming service.

**edward74** · 04-12-2018, 01:28 PM

So when I read that little connection between Oscar Moore and this Horace Hatchett guy, I had to look up his name and this is the first thing that popped up on a Google search.

http://utstat.utoronto.ca/mikevans/h.../hatchett.html

I really like all the stories from guitarist about this or that player or whatever happen to so and so or all the experiences Junior Watson shares in that clip. I watched the rest of that series, by the way, and thanks for that! I'm sure there are hundreds of tales I need to read in this forum about unsung guitarist or their teachers/mentors. I wondered if anyone has traced more about Oscar's life post-Nat King Cole, post-Three Blazers, post-random guitar albums in the 50s and 60s. Did he not take on any students himself? For guy who supposedly gets acknowledgements from the likes of Barney Kessel, John Pizzarelli, etc., you would hope someone at least write more about him or say to his relatives that he contributed some great things, be proud he's in your lineage. I dunno. By the way, does anyone own this album...

The Oscar Moore Trio - We'll Rememer You, Nat at Discogs

Bet there are loads of stories from the likes of LA and California session players and maybe others who saw that once famous parking lot attendant, Oscar Moore.

**Wow&flutter** · 04-12-2018, 04:26 PM

Who knew that hard bop was happening like this on the West Coast? Victor Feldman, Scott LaFaro, and Stan Levey made a topnotch rhythm section. And by the way Levey's son is actually a doctor in Texas, and I gathered at the time that he just plays for fun.

Sorry to hear about Oscar Moore's later difficulties. The music biz is fickle (ask me how I know).

**sgcim** · 04-12-2018, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Wow&flutter

Who knew that hard bop was happening like this on the West Coast? Victor Feldman, Scott LaFaro, and Stan Levey made a topnotch rhythm section. And by the way Levey's son is actually a doctor in Texas, and I gathered at the time that he just plays for fun.

Sorry to hear about Oscar Moore's later difficulties. The music biz is fickle (ask me how I know).

How you know?

**edward74** · 10-02-2018, 02:43 PM

Here's the latest tidbit I heard about Oscar Moore from John Pizzarelli on Fretboard Journal's podcast: Apparently, Pizzarelli saw a late-night rerun of an old show called "This Is Your Life" filmed back in the early 60s where celebrities are reunited with people in their past. Supposedly, Oscar Moore was invited to the surprise of Nat King Cole. John hasn't found the footage, so there must be some archived clip of this, which would be really interesting to see. Also, there was mention of Oscar Moore's son finding a box of awards and things in box in a garage...I think this must be mentioned in Nat King Cole's biography. Will have to read these accounts.

Podcast 217: John Pizzarelli | Fretboard Journal

Aside from the nod to Moore, Pizzarelli gives a nice background of how he started playing guitar.