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Originally Posted by princeplanet
Sonny Stitt, in a DB interview, gave his opinion"
'I'm not the 'new Bird'. Cannonball's not the 'new Bird'. Nobody's Bird. BIRD DIED!!'
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06-10-2017 01:06 PM
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OK, maybe you're right., so it was a shame he went back to his funky roots then Sometimes I feel convinced Cannonball was the greatest player ever, even greater than Parker, who along with Rollins and maybe Jackie Mac, had that thing where they took outrageous chances and would sound like tripping down the stairs but still landing on their feet. I like Dexter and Wes for the same reason.
As for Stitt (who was amazing if less adventurous), let's face it, he always wanted to top Bird. But alas he was to Bird what Salieri was to Mozart, i.e., condemned to be a bitter man in the wake of his greater Nemesis...
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
'WHAT?' Dem's fightin' woids! So the debate went along the lines of me saying 'Always go to the source, the innovator FIRST!!' To which he replied: 'I know what he (Parker) was reaching for...' 'REACHING FOR?!!'---and on and on.
John was saying that the 'refiners' in music history were actually superior to the 'cruder' originals, b/c they had time to smooth out the bumps, codify the language, etc. There IS truth to this, but John was a classical theory and composition major who also loved jazz (and was supposed to have been a hell of a kid jazz accordionist). He actually made the Parker/Adderley=Palestrina/Bach comparison. The irony, of course, is that jazz is now like classical music---a codified 'language' taught in schools (often by poor examples of the art)----all of which is counter to the spirit of both jazz and Parker, who was the purest of improvisors. Lee Konitz called him a 'composer' in the sense of having a pool of ideas and phrases to cite, quote and cross-reference at will.
Cannonball, to me, was a combination of a notier Benny Carter, a blues player, and a very distinctive user of 8th-notes. He had great ideas, feeling and chops. He was a world in himself---through his predecessors, like all great art comes.
I always dug Sonny Stitt for what he was. He wasn't an inventor like Parker, but could put a hell of a solo together, and I don't care if he recycled the same licks over and over----he PRODUCED. To me, Jimmy Raney and Joe Pass (Grant Green, too, in a different sense) on our instrument were that kind of player. I like Raney's (one of my teachers, BTW) statement: 'I don't care about 'innovation'. I want to be GOOD----to work with quality, and hone that'. He WAS , if not an innovator, a hell of an ORIGINAL player. (They are two different things---another discussion for another day). He started consciously as a Parker interpreter on guitar (but always had his own touch, great time and sound, and that 'air-column simulation' all the great jazz guitar soloist have). He ended up indisputably Jimmy Raney, instantly recognizable and impossible to copy. And his playing changed. To me it was more deeply felt and sparser from the '70s on. Less 8th notes, more space, more asymmetrical phrases (lots of quarters off the beat, etc.).
OK, I'm typed out...Last edited by fasstrack; 06-10-2017 at 08:30 PM.
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Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
Last edited by fasstrack; 06-10-2017 at 08:47 PM.
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Originally Posted by fasstrack
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Thanks for posting this. Some pretty remarkable technique. I'd like to hear how he might use it in his own soloing.
It interests me as ages ago I played along with Dolphy records since I liked his playing so much. But I could never really figure out what the fsck he was doing. My ears just couldn't keep up... let alone the fingers. But the concept is still with me.
And thanks to Ol'Fret for the link to the article. The Miles quote about somebody stepping on Eric's toes gave me a laugh. To my way of thinking it ain't necessarily a put-down.
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Get Birdland Sessions 1952, Stan Getz Quintet----a little rawer and harder-swinging than Live at Storyville (which you also should have, it's a classic). Jimmy Raney A, In 3 Attitudes, Visits Paris, a sideman date with Bob Brookmeyer, the name of which escapes me----are all good early examples. He also took over Tal Farlow's chair with Norvo, and they recorded. Teddy Charles Tentet has great writing and he's on it playing well. I especially recommend David X. Young's Loft Sessions (if you can get it anymore). It's great players like Zoot Sims, Pepper Adams, Raney and Hall jamming in a loft after-hours in the flower district---with a tape recorder running. Raney really stretches out with a magnificent solo on Spuds (Idaho changes), and it's interesting to hear Jim Hall---new in town---listening and developing.
For later recordings my favorite is The Master, recorded in Holland with a good rhythm section. Strings Attached with Al Haig from around '75 is good. The duos with Atilla Zoller (Jim and Me) are very intimate and involved, very subtle and lovely.
But I'd start with his first date (since released under the more famous Stan Getz's name as Early Stan. There are 3 of his very well-written originals (he was a terrific composer) and a classic version of Round Midnight.
Good luck...
Jeff Beck Truth
Today, 01:06 PM in Other Styles / Instruments