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Big gaps in my Rollins knowledge, but I am familiar with his late 50s trio work, Village Vanguard and Way Out West. Also the album with Coleman Hawkins, which is an interesting contrast in styles. Tenor Madness, The Bridge, others - I have heard them, need to re-listen. The sax-bass-drums trio without piano, I love that sound. (I would have welcomed hearing Wes without a piano player, but it must never have been his choice.)
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08-01-2019 08:39 PM
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In alphabetical order...
David Grisman
Claire Martin
Charles Mingus
Thelonious Monk
Jaco Pastorius
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Bud Powell
Thelonious Monk
Bird
Kenny Dorham
Hank Mobley
.............
Plus too many more for the list.
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These are not necessarily in any order of importance:
Gene Ammons
Dexter Gordon
Joey D'Franscesco
Chet Baker
Johnny Hartman
Good Playing . . . Marinero
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Love seeing our city's beloved "Hankenstein" getting so much love here (Hank Mobley). We try to keep his memory alive by playing some of his tunes every gig.
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Originally Posted by henryrobinett
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Originally Posted by Irez87
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Can't believe I'm the 1st to say Max Roach, the most lyrical, melodic drummer. Which of course leads to Clifford Brown with his rapid fire melodic runs at an age that's younger than my youngest daughter. Then there's Jaco, the tragic beauty, depth, dynamics. So heavy.....
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Originally Posted by henryrobinett
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Originally Posted by JCat
(I mean they might learn all the hard Trane tunes like Satellite and 26-2 but conveniently overlook all the amazing playing Trane did on old standards. Jazz as crossword puzzle.)
All the actually good players I know, however modern, can do this. Because they’ve been on the bandstand. But it would be nice if the education system prepared them a bit more. Moreno talks about the fact that the more tunes you learn the faster you learn tunes. This really important.
Looking back that’s the advice I’d give to the younger me, but I think I’d have ignored it lol. I’m not the best in terms of rep but I try to learn the music I get turned on by and I don’t have reach for the iReal for every other tune.
There are few more enjoyable ways to spend your practice time than with real music that you love.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
I suppose some people like improvisation, some like composition and most of us like a bit of both. Which reminds me of this quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmiskingOriginally Posted by Rhythmisking
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Originally Posted by JCat
This reminds of an interview with Molly Tuttle who has bags of chops (and a Berklee grad to boot) and said she acquired these skills just by playing tunes. Obviously you won’t find a better country flat picking drill than a fiddle tune, or simply trying to fill in the chords when playing solo...
otoh you won’t find a better bop picking etude than a Parker head.
An overly reductionist approach to the arts maybe? You know all those great players who say ‘I’m not a book person’, ‘I never worked on etudes’ or ‘I just played music’?
Thing is you can solo like a mf, but if you don’t know at least some tunes and can’t accompany in a simple an supportive way, you will be passed over for gigs by people who have these skills (ie ‘show maturity’) and some pick them up super early, but for the others...
This is requisite for making a living playing jazz....
Know plenty of great young soloists who I cannot dep gigs to.
As Hal Galper puts it, the aim of practice should be to get you onto the bandstand. But, as jazz increasingly is about the colleges... glad to say I live somewhere where there is a bandstand, however imperfect.
Perhaps it unrealistic to expect colleges to provide this type of learning.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
You know I agree about music and passion, but we all need to start somewhere, right? Students first have to find and explore the music, get to know it. They don't play Jazz everyday on the radio anymore like they did when Wes grew up. It's not pop anymore. Students have a bag of contemporary pop influences at the time they start studying Jazz and this will be reflected in the music of tomorrow. Anyway, I like to assume that anyone who decides to study Jazz also love the music. Most important is to learn to play the music I love. Real Book and records are great sources.
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1) Bill Evans (piano)
2) Mike Mainieri (vibes)
3) Jeff Andrews (bass)
4) Charlie Banacos (piano)
5) Sonny Rollins (sax)Last edited by Pete Sklaroff; 08-04-2019 at 11:08 AM. Reason: mistake
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Originally Posted by JCat
There’s nothing wrong with contemporary (or at least more recent pop .... except, play me a song.
One guy, I suggested he play some Radiohead (his favourite band, with changes and melodies. Knives Out is a good blowing vehicle for instance.) - looked at me like I’d grown an extra head.
I think there’s a lot of kids out there who think jazz = jamming on vamps.
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Nina Simone
Grover Washington Jr.
Chet Baker
Count Basie
George Duke
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Originally Posted by christianm77
-What if the music I love is not in Real book? Then I use records, spotify or similar archives.
-Are there important jazz compositions not included among 1000 songs in the Real book archive, so important that students should learn them in college? I don't think so, but it's not my call.
But people learn and play the music they love, whether it's in Real Book or not, right. But if players don't speak the same language we can't expect them to find each other on the band stand. That's the beauty of standards. Without standards we would have to jam on vamps.
-Are there other standards than Jazz standards? of course! There are Beatles standards and AC/DC standards and Country standards and Soul standards and Blues standards etc etc.
According to the philosopher Nicholas Payton, Jazz died in 1959, meaning whatever we play in 2019, it ain't jazz and that's cool, because according to him Jazz is dead and uncool, it's no pop anymore.
Above I've listed my main Jazz influences, non-guitar players. If I was to include the guys that really got my ears in my teens, the list would look different. Donald Fagen would probably still be on the list, he's all Jazz to me and cool since I'm less dogmatic than N. Payton (that happens to be an excellent Jazz trumpet player in our time afaik. Maybe he thinks that we talk too much about players long gone and forget the ones that are alive and kicking.)
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Originally Posted by JCat
The sooner budding professional players get into learning music properly and in depth the better.
But people learn and play the music they love, whether it's in Real Book or not, right. But if players don't speak the same language we can't expect them to find each other on the band stand. That's the beauty of standards. Without standards we would have to jam on vamps.
There's a reason there are standard rep lists, but really my repertoire I learned at first by getting roasted not knowing tunes, and learning those, and now I drive the process more myself learning tunes I like.
It's all based around the community really. There are different tunes in vogue now at jams than there were 15 years ago, but you can spot, say, the Guildhall students, because they all play the same small repertoire.
-Are there other standards than Jazz standards? of course! There are Beatles standards and AC/DC standards and Country standards and Soul standards and Blues standards etc etc.
According to the philosopher Nicholas Payton, Jazz died in 1959, meaning whatever we play in 2019, it ain't jazz and that's cool, because according to him Jazz is dead and uncool, it's no pop anymore.
Above I've listed my main Jazz influences, non-guitar players. If I was to include the guys that really got my ears in my teens, the list would look different. Donald Fagen would probably still be on the list, he's all Jazz to me and cool since I'm less dogmatic than N. Payton (that happens to be an excellent Jazz trumpet player in our time afaik. Maybe he thinks that we talk too much about players long gone and forget the ones that are alive and kicking.)
Yeah, the big problem is that if you want to learn standards harmony, you are looking at learning a few hundred tunes of that era (1920s-50s) and you are done (as Frank Vignola puts it) - obviously there's been 60 years of both jazz and pop music since, and contemporary jazz uses different changes, often non-functional.
Harmony in pop is often vestigal.... I remember myself how alien GASB functional harmony (let alone bop!) was to someone reared on rock music....
This results in a diversity of repertoire - as well as Gershwin and Cole Porter, you have Steely Dan, Beatles, Stevie, Metheny, Wayne Shorter and so on... So teaching practices have to cover that to... Possibly one reason CST has been so successful is that it can basically get you through ... And is no doubt why CST tends to talk about colouristic harmony rather than the way chords move... Cos chords move different one decade to the other... .
I don't think that matters, so long as there's a song. Harmony isn't that important.
NY cats seem to have everything dialled in... but I wonder how much harder they have to work on this than the bop players..
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Yeah, the contemporary jazz scene is local (or tied to a sub community). It's hard to spread the news as the air is crowded with everything else; a myriad of genres and sub genres.
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1) Miles Davis
2) Chet Baker
3) Billie Holiday
4) Cannonball
5) John Medeski
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Ornette Coleman
Thelonious Monk
Steve Lacy
Anthony Braxton
Charles Mingus
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Miles Davis
Chet Baker
Charlie Parker
Ed Bickert
John Coltrane
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I'm not good enough to claim I'm influenced by anyone but...
1) Bird
2) Sonny Rollins
3) Lester Young
4) Dexter Gordon
5) Keith Jarrett
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1) All time it's T Monk. Like half his catalog is in my head. I like how he mixes tradish playing with adventurous harmonies and he was a great composer.
2) Jimmy Smith. I really like his aggressive use of rhythm. Not the most lyrical player ever, but it really teaches you to use rhythm.
3) Charlie Parker. I like how he outlines the chords in his solos.
4) Milt Jackson. His lines have a really great combo of rhythmic momentum and catchy and melodic phrases.
5) Bill Evans. Can lack an earthy sound of the more bluesy greats, but is silly good at times. His autumn leaves is one of the best recorded tunes and solos of all time imo.
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In order of influence:
- Paul Desmond
- Bill Evans
- Chet Baker
- Stan Getz
- Bix Beiderbecke
Desmond is my favorite musician bar none, above guitar players and all other musicians, dead or alive, on any instrument in any genre.
1979 L5 CES - Sweden ~$7k
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