Fusion Guitarists

Jazzarian · 12-01-2007, 04:43 PM

Some of us can't live on archtop alone.

Me? I got this Larry Carlton/Robben Ford/Santana/Ritenour/Holdsworth/Freeman/Bullock/Tropea side of me.

Obtaining the fat, gorgeous, non-metal, fusion distortion is a life long quest, for us non-Dumble folks.

My last 3 compositions have been fusion. I'm back in Wes Montgomery mode now! Fear not, oh ye purists!

**Dennoow** · 01-29-2008, 03:57 PM

I love fusion guitarists! I heard so many of them in the last 6 years. Gambale, Holdsworth, Garsed, Howe, Kotzen, Govan etc. I like them even better than "normal" jazz guitarists, sorry folks! I only recently rolled into jazz guitar playing since I got tired of rock/metal/blues playing and I couldn't figure out what the hell those jazz/fusion guitarists were doing! I know my theory pretty well now I suppose, now I'm doing some standards. Don't get me wrong; I love pure jazzguitarists as well! I just like the power rock brings into it, could be my age

**Tung** · 01-30-2008, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Jazzarian

Some of us can't live on archtop alone.

Me? I got this Larry Carlton/Robben Ford/Santana/Ritenour/Holdsworth/Freeman/Bullock/Tropea side of me.

Obtaining the fat, gorgeous, non-metal, fusion distortion is a life long quest, for us non-Dumble folks.

My last 3 compositions have been fusion. I'm back in Wes Montgomery mode now! Fear not, oh ye purists!

Very nice, great bunch of guys on your list. Carlton/Ford has some great jazzy ideas over blues. Hirram Bullock's playing with Jaco was great, his playing on the Soul Bop Band was cool too.

**gravitas** · 01-30-2008, 12:02 PM

Speaking of Carlton/Ford, somebody forwarded me this video of them playing on a chart called "Burnable." Liked it so much I'm thinking I'll learn it myself. Here it is:

**aPAULo** · 01-30-2008, 05:01 PM

i used to be a big Santana fan for a little bit after my mom showed me him.

but that was before i really got into jazz. he is still one of my favs though.

**derek** · 01-30-2008, 06:52 PM

For me, it is tough to do the shred thing and stay musical, whether we are talking about prog rock, country, jazz or fusion. I like some of McLaughlin, DeMiola (ego aside), Gambale, Holdsworth, etc, but some of it just leaves me cold.

Carlton and Ford are two guys who never seem to stray far from being melodic. That is the key for me. While I can appreciate Gambale's et al, chops, I have zero interest in hearing him just sweeping thru arpeggios ala Ywngie.

I too have a fusion itch at times, and in addition to Carlton and Ford, throw Stern and Sco in the mix for me.

**mike walker** · 01-30-2008, 07:42 PM

Robben's phrasing on 'monmouth college fight song', Genius. you tube it.
Larry carltons playing on the outro of a song he plays on an album called 'on solid ground' can't remember title but it's just beautiful. Another great guy in that area is dean parks. I remember working out a solo from a song by carlton when i was about 18. it was called 'mulberry st' from an album called 'strikes twice'. It nearly killed me; then i found out he'd played it at half speed and doubled it thru some machine!! Man did i lose weight getting that down.

**Tung** · 01-30-2008, 09:06 PM

[quote=mike walker;5565]Another great guy in that area is dean parks. .[/quote

Dean Parks is really tasteful. Case in point, the acoustic solo he did on Toni Braxton's "Unbreak My Heart", nothing flashy, but just so musical and gorgeous.

**Dennoow** · 01-31-2008, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by derek

For me, it is tough to do the shred thing and stay musical, whether we are talking about prog rock, country, jazz or fusion. I like some of McLaughlin, DeMiola (ego aside), Gambale, Holdsworth, etc, but some of it just leaves me cold.

Carlton and Ford are two guys who never seem to stray far from being melodic. That is the key for me. While I can appreciate Gambale's et al, chops, I have zero interest in hearing him just sweeping thru arpeggios ala Ywngie.

I too have a fusion itch at times, and in addition to Carlton and Ford, throw Stern and Sco in the mix for me.

So do I. But his latest stuff is really tasty IMO. His stuff can get very very complicated. The song "yang" for instance is extremely hard to follow, Harmonically challenging let alone the solo he does over it! but the albums "raison D'être", "imagery suite" and "Natural High" are extremely impressive IMHO. Natural high is even entirely accoustic, not a single electric guitar played on there. His technique translates well to an accoustic guitar. Anyway, he was a little cheesy in his early days but his playing really matured and now he's one of my favourites. Scofield and Stern are really great too. Be sure to check out Guthrie Govan if you haven't already; the guy is a genius!

**Dennoow** · 01-31-2008, 08:13 PM

Btw check out master Greg Howe here:

Incredible playing!!!

Jazzarian · 01-31-2008, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by mike walker

Robben's phrasing on 'monmouth college fight song', Genius. you tube it.
Larry carltons playing on the outro of a song he plays on an album called 'on solid ground' can't remember title but it's just beautiful. Another great guy in that area is dean parks. I remember working out a solo from a song by carlton when i was about 18. it was called 'mulberry st' from an album called 'strikes twice'. It nearly killed me; then i found out he'd played it at half speed and doubled it thru some machine!! Man did i lose weight getting that down.

Carlton learned to play Strikes Twice at half speed. I said "learned". He plays it in real time, and has for 30 years. I've seen him do it many times.

Jazzarian · 01-31-2008, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Tung

Very nice, great bunch of guys on your list. Carlton/Ford has some great jazzy ideas over blues. Hirram Bullock's playing with Jaco was great, his playing on the Soul Bop Band was cool too.

Hiram got the boot from the David Letterman Band and was replaced with Robben Ford. I guess being barefoot and late all the time didn't sit well with the network execs.

What incredible talent though. Bullock and Ford. Did America realize who was in that band? Some guy named Will Lee on bass aint bad either.

**mike walker** · 02-01-2008, 07:14 AM

Yes jazzarian. That's strikes twice. I said 'mulberry street'. And he has never played that solo live. I learned the whole solo. Listen to mulberry st. You'll see what i mean.

**Tung** · 02-01-2008, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Jazzarian

What incredible talent though. Bullock and Ford. Did America realize who was in that band? Some guy named Will Lee on bass aint bad either.

Hirram got the boot because he was f%$@#ed up on drugs, that was a fact, so was Steve Jordan, the drummer. Hirram actually talked about this in interviews, there were shows that he didn't even remember being there, and sometimes he was knodding off during the show

Still a great player though, I love his NYC funk feel.

Jazzarian · 02-03-2008, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Tung

Hirram got the boot because he was f%$@#ed up on drugs, that was a fact, so was Steve Jordan, the drummer. Hirram actually talked about this in interviews, there were shows that he didn't even remember being there, and sometimes he was knodding off during the show

Still a great player though, I love his NYC funk feel.

AH yes, the wonderful Reagan War On Drug years. That went over real well. Just like he won the Cold War, and ketchup and relish declared as rightful vegetables. Not to mention what an utter victory Iran-Contra was.

My point being, I can forgive Hiram Bullock.

**perhapsguitar1234** · 04-14-2008, 11:36 PM

I think fusion is just good rock music that actually has a harmony and a melody not random riffs.

**derek** · 06-02-2008, 01:43 PM

Santana has played Mesa Boogie amps for years, and more recently Dumbles.

**hutch82** · 06-03-2008, 01:10 PM

Have caught occassional glimpse's of Hiram......damn he's funky,but don't have him in my collection anyone recommend a must have album...tip of the hat to all the player's above....who's got your favourite tone,I'll go with Larry on his "Last Nite" album

H

**theAudience** · 06-25-2008, 09:14 PM

You've made some nice choices.
I've been a big Allan Holdsworth fan (maybe the godfather of modern fusion playing) since I heard one of his solos on a Jean-Luc Ponty album.

Anyway someone who hasn't been mentioned that you might find interesting is a gentleman by the name of Wayne Krantz...

(Part 1)

(Part 2)

(Part 3)

...Very logical philosophy and approach to guitar playing.

He's done tours with Steely Dan & Donald Fagen.

peace,
tA

**fep** · 07-29-2008, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by mike walker

Yes jazzarian. That's strikes twice. I said 'mulberry street'. And he has never played that solo live. I learned the whole solo. Listen to mulberry st. You'll see what i mean.

Hey Mike,

What is your source of this information. How about a link?

I seem to remember seeing Carlton play Mulberry Street live at Humphreys by the Sea in San Diego. My memory could be failing me though.

Frank

**mike walker** · 07-29-2008, 07:12 PM

He might have played mulberry st the tune frank, but not the solo.
He played it in half speed then doubled it. just listen to the recording. The high notes are like 2 octaves above what they should be. I love that solo. but it's written, or partially worked out. It nearly killed me to work it out many years ago when it first came out.

Mike

**funnyval** · 07-29-2008, 08:11 PM

Yeah, I also spent a lot of time on Mulberry Street. Steve Kahn used to write a column called "On Guitar" (don't recall the magazine name right now), and one month he analyzed the solo and provided a transcription that was outstanding, in some ways better than what is in the PMP Larry Carlton book.

Steve theorized at the time that the solo was played through some kind of guitar synth to get that upper range. I always had a hard time believing that even Larry Carlton could improvise such at perfect solo at that tempo over bop chord changes (chromatically descending II-V-Is, key changes in major thirds, etc), so it wouldn't really surprise me if it was pre-worked out and speeded up in the studio.

**mike walker** · 07-30-2008, 04:32 AM

It's definitely not a synth. No other larry solo sounds like this. Except maybe for Frenchman's flat from sleepwalk, and i think the same thing was done there. The vocabulary is just too different. Point it up is a good example of his more naturally uptempo stuff. It's great, but the vocabulary from both Mulberry st and frenchman's flat is in another league.

Mike

**fep** · 07-30-2008, 03:29 PM

Hey Mike,

I found something from Larry Carlton's site that confirms what you wrote:

“Mulberry Street” (from Carlton's 1981 album, “Strikes Twice”): “I
remember the evening I was going to record that. I wasn't real
comfortable with soloing over the chord changes. So I went to my
Room 335 studio and slowed the tape down from 30 inches per second
to 15 inches per second. The solo on the record is the first take,

recorded while the tape was spinning at half speed. That was it.”

I found that at this link:

http://www.larrycarlton.com/pdf/lcpress_recording.pdf

Cheers,

Frank

**mike walker** · 07-30-2008, 04:08 PM

Hey thanks Frank,
I always thought this but never had it verified. But i'll also wager he's worked on the solo ideas beforehand. the phrasing is so different from his usual stuff.
Written, slowed down, whatever it sounds great.
Very interesting tho Frank, thanks for the heads up and the link.

http://www.mike-walker.co.uk/audio/m...r-DadLogic.mp3