Simply the greatest jazz guitarist of all time

[Jazzarian]

Kindly tell me "if I'm wrong" :}

[fep]

That brings back memories...

I remember around 1980 something I took an album (vinyl in those days) out of all my favorite guitarists to try to determine who my favorite guitarist was.

At the time Pat Martino's Consciousness album was getting the most play at my house. Artists that I can remember including in my comparison... Joe Pass, George Benson, Howard Roberts, Lee Ritenour, Larry Carlton, Larry Coryell, Jim Hall, Al Dimeola, Pat Metheny... and I'm sure there were a few more artists in my collection that I'm not remembering.

To my surprise, after spending most of theday listening to all these different guitarists in my collection, George Benson came out to be my favorite.

[Banksia]

The Player Poll we had on this site last year will tell you that 89.45% of us believe that "No, he isn't the greatest!"

[The Korux]

The Player Poll we had on this site last year will tell you that 89.45% of us believe that "No, he isn't the greatest!"

not that he is that bad, but he diserves this result.

[Jazzarian]

The Player Poll we had on this site last year will tell you that 89.45% of us believe that "No, he isn't the greatest!"

You know what I think of polls?

The proof is in the video in my book. I've seen Hall, Bucky and John Pizzarelli, Kenny Burrell, Norman Brown, Larry Coryell, Kevin Eubanks, Pat Metheny, Pat Stern, John Scofield, Jimmy Bruno, Howard Alden,........ nobody touches Benson.

Yes I do own a great DVD of Wes Montgomery playing in Europe. Thanks for asking!

[reventlov]

You'll never get agreement across the board on who is the greatest jazz guitarist of all time; my view is that there is no such thing. My own favourites are Hank Garland, Django and Lenny Breau but I think you have to accept that we all have our own favourites and just let it go at that. Benson is great for sure btw and I love the 'Take 5' version - my opinion expressed above should in no way be taken as a criticism of him.

[Jazzarian]

I guess it is a little like asking "was Jobim Brazil's greatest composer?"


Well I can't say for sure, but they did name an airport (no joke) after him.

[JohnW400]

I don't think theres an overall best at anything in life. I think of it as more of who's the top in their field. And this spot is usually shared and with the accolade "they're one of the tops in their field"

All the players whether it be the A list, B list or C list , all bring something different to the table. Not necessarily greater, just different.

There are so many aspects to playing guitar that I think it would be almost impossible to be the greatest at all of them.

George Benson is truly a living legend of jazz guitar and one of the greats, but so are most of the people mentioned in the various threads that cover this topic.

[FatJeff]

Kindly tell me "if I'm wrong" :}

You're wrong. :-)

I dunno, that was an OK video, but it didn't do much for me. Simply my opinion of course.

[Jazzarian]

You're wrong. :-)

I dunno, that was an OK video, but it didn't do much for me. Simply my opinion of course.

Let me guess, you finger pick? Jim Hall is your ideal guitarist?

Benson is more like a straight ahead jazz version of John McLaughlin in this video. Heavy heavy picking. But oh the chops!!!!!!

[FatJeff]

I fingerpick and I play with the plectrum. Depends on the situation.

I haven't heard Jim Hall. I have heard *of* him, just haven't heard him play.

At this point of the game I'd have to say that Wes is still my favorite.

[Holmes Monaco]

george benson has always just seemed like a smooth jazz musician to me, video you posted included. I dont care how well he plays, (even though he is missing notes within 20 seconds in that video) he just doesnt produce good music. the kind of feeling he gets across in his music is just not one which seems valuable or important. too much smooth jazz cheese involved.

[fep]

There is no way to prove Benson is the greatest.

There is no way to prove he's not the greatest.

That word just doesn't apply to something as subjective as music. And don't you think it's pretty arrogant to use that word? As though you feel qualified to determine who is the greatest?

If you all would just use the phrase... i.e. he's my favorite or he's not my favorite...

Then there would be no real argument.

[Jazzarian]

There is no way to prove Benson is the greatest.

There is no way to prove he's not the greatest.

That word just doesn't apply to something as subjective as music. And don't you think it's pretty arrogant to use that word? As though you feel qualified to determine who is the greatest?

If you all would just use the phrase... i.e. he's my favorite or he's not my favorite...

Then there would be no real argument.

Wow, someone got it right. It took a while and I was starting to have my doubts.

Someone calling "Take 5" a smooth jazz song made the effort most worthwhile. Really. Very entertaining and revealing of that individual. I'm sure Brubek and Desmond had smooth jazz radio in mind when they recorded the song.

[Krish]

this thread is hilarious.

anyone who calls Benson the greatest jazz guitar player ever after posting a "funky fusion" version of Take 5 has gotta be kidding. especially when you are slighting Jim Hall in the same paragraph.

Benson is fantastic, and i have no problem with someone thinking hes the greatest (because many do) but there is no need to invalidate other peoples opinions just cause you disagree.


To me, Benson is one of my favorites (of course only his jazz/blues/funk/fusion period - pretty much everything up to AND including Bad Benson; cant really comment on his pop stuff)

but he is also a very "niche"-y player. he pretty much only does the slick smooth clean hollowbody sound. (and i mean that in a good way, not the "smoove jazz" way). he hasnt really done THAT much jazz.. most of the stuff the recordings he did in the late 60's early 70's were certainly "jazz" but it was rooted in blues and organ grooves; certainly used a jazz vocabulary,... but.....

He pretty much stopped developing, in my ears, right around those CTI recordings of the early 70's. Bad Benson (which Take 5 is on) was the beginning of the end in my opinion. That album gave us a taste of what was the come; fancy arrangements tightly packaged for mass consumption.

Benson hasnt really pushed jazz in any specific direction. He basically took what Wes Montgomery and Grant Green were doin, but put some adrenaline in to it. As far as melodic content goes, Benson has NOTHING on Montgomery or Green, if you ask me. -

Benson just always seemed to be more and show and flash. (thankfully his show and flash was damn fine stuff) He just never seemed like much of a "thinker" -

i dont really have a favorite, everyone has got something different. Benson is an amazing funk/blues/organ jazz guitarist... Frisell is an amazing modern jazz guitarist with a completely unique voice. Jim Hall is an extremely deep thinker, and his music shows it. Hes pretty much the opposite of Benson in my opinion- he is heavily studied in classical music and counterpoint, he comes from a more "Bill Evans-y" approach than Benson.

Then youve got the newer folks like Rosenwinkel, Rogers.. Kreisberg. all of these guys are developing a new language for the future of jazz. Id love to hear Benson play over some Rosenwinkel tunes!

really.. i guess im just rambling.. the point is.. everyone has something different to offer. it depends on what you look for in jazz and music.

thankfully i pretty much love and respect every jazz musician i hear. there is always something new to learn.

when i want quick killin lines that will make you go , ill put on Benson's Body Talk, or The Cookbook.

if i want tunes that make me go - ill put on some Grant Green.

if i want some tunes that make me go ill put on some Jim Hall

if i want some tunes to make me go ill put on some Sonny Sharrock

[Holmes Monaco]

Wow, someone got it right. It took a while and I was starting to have my doubts.

Someone calling "Take 5" a smooth jazz song made the effort most worthwhile. Really. Very entertaining and revealing of that individual. I'm sure Brubek and Desmond had smooth jazz radio in mind when they recorded the song.

ha i never said anything about dave brubek (who is awesome) or take five (which is a great tune), i merely said that george benson is too much of a cheesy fusion artist for serious consideration, certainly not next to rosenwinkel.

[Krish]

ha i never said anything about dave brubek (who is awesome) or take five (which is a great tune), i merely said that george benson is too much of a cheesy fusion artist for serious consideration, certainly not next to rosenwinkel.

i dont know about that.. i dont think George Benson, (or anyone for that matter) deserves the title "best jazz guitar player ever"

but, he certainly is an absolute master of jazz guitar. he has plenty of recordings to show this... his work in the late 60's and early 70's is most definitely jazz, and its jazz guitar performed at an extremely high level.

Cookbook.. Beyond the Blue Horizon.. all the stuff he did with Jack McDuff, Lonnie Smith, and Jimmy Smith.

he really isnt just some "cheesy fusion artist" - his career certainly took a different path and hes gone more pop.

this is just one of the reasons why i cant call him the best jazz guitarist ever.. hes great, and there was a certain period where he was doing alot of stuff. but to me, he didnt do much with the traditional jazz tunes. he played mostly blues based stuff. he didnt explore the possibilties of what could be done.. he kinda stuck to his one sound.. he did the fusion thing in the early 70's, but even then, it sounds very rooted in blues ideas.

there is just not enough Benson playing jazz. id love to hear him play on some standards. or WRITE HIS OWN jazz tunes. everything ive got from him, its all him playing other peoples music. he doesnt approach jazz guitar like folks like Metheny, or Scofield or whoever.. those people are trying to write jazz tunes in their OWN voice.

[princeplanet]

Hmmm, how about saying something like "I think early Benson solos are some of the most exciting jazz gtr solos ever". Cos I'd certainly agree with ya there!

[ingeneri]

Nobody in jazz is the "best" there are merely favorites. Miles doesn't have Dizzy's technique. To some that makes him worse, others find how he worked around those limitations to be more creative and compelling.

The real dividing line seperates those who commit to serious challenges on their instrument to produce substantive music despite the promise of little to no financial compensation. Just about anything, from Chet Baker to Albert Ayler, produced by this process and commitment should deserve respect regardless of how one feels about the results. You can dislike it, but you should'nt disrespect it.

While a high level of competence on one's instrument is required for all forms of jazz, technique does not equal greatness. Kenny Burrell is my absolute favorite guitarist, but I'd never claim he was the best technician. Personally, I think Johnny Smith had the best technique with his perfectly clean lightning fast single note runs, multiple octave arpeggios, and practically impossible chord voicings (an area Benson doesn't even touch upon). But if someone wants to prefer Benson, that's fine by me.

[Jazzarian]

Nobody in jazz is the "best" there are merely favorites. Miles doesn't have Dizzy's technique. To some that makes him worse, others find how he worked around those limitations to be more creative and compelling.

Freddie Hubbard had Dizzy's technique, and more.

Kenny Burrell is my absolute favorite guitarist, but I'd never claim he was the best technician. Personally, I think Johnny Smith had the best technique with his perfectly clean lightning fast single note runs, multiple octave arpeggios, and practically impossible chord voicings (an area Benson doesn't even touch upon). But if someone wants to prefer Benson, that's fine by me.

Sorry, don't think Johnny Smith quite had all of Benson's chops, as seen in the video.

Benson is quite good with chord melody too.

I also think the world of Kenny Burrell.

[ingeneri]

Freddie Hubbard had Dizzy's technique, and more.

Not sure of your point, I like all three and Clifford Brown and Lee Morgan as well.

One of my first steady gigs was as a sideman for saxophonist Billy Smith. Billy had been playing pro since the '30s, and had been an early mentor to Freddie Hubbard when he first arrived in NY. Absolutely great experience, makes you realize there is a world of difference between today's Real Book/music school playing and keeping up with the old timers.

[Jazzarian]

Not sure of your point, I like all three and Clifford Brown and Lee Morgan as well.

One of my first steady gigs was as a sideman for saxophonist Billy Smith. Billy had been playing pro since the '30s, and had been an early mentor to Freddie Hubbard when he first arrived in NY. Absolutely great experience, makes you realize there is a world of difference between today's Real Book/music school playing and keeping up with the old timers.

Miles once asked Freddie who his favorite trumpet player was. Freddie said Clifford Brown. Miles said "Clifford played too many notes. Freddie, you play too many notes".

Glad that fell on deaf ears!

[franco6719]

Miles once asked Freddie who his favorite trumpet player was. Freddie said Clifford Brown. Miles said "Clifford played too many notes. Freddie, you play too many notes".

Glad that fell on deaf ears!

That's a good story.

[franco6719]

"Now THIS is a meaningless and silly thread. Personal opinion: George Benson sounded pretty good on the Cookbook, but, other than that, I have not been impressed much."

Well, this was just badly stated. I should have said that he sounded outstanding on the Cookbook and much of the other early stuff. I have not HEARD or known about anything that he has done since then that is equal to or better than this. But I have not heard everything by Benson.

[PSUnderwood]

I think George Benson is the best George Benson there is. And that John Scofield is the best John Scofield there is. And Wes Montgomery was...ahh, you get the idea.