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What do you think Wes Mo would have thought of Joe Pass' playing if he had been around? esp solo stuff. Just curious you all think. Wes seemed to be really humble and down to Earth; I guess I just wonder if it would have knocked his socks off or not
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07-27-2015 03:34 PM
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What about Wes and Grant Green, or Wes and Jim Hall. Cool idea, Joe.
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Well, Wes was around for the first 7 years of Joe's career or so. Joe was winning rising star awards in Downbeat by the early/mid 60's, so my guess is, Wes knew about him.
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oh okay, thanks jeff. I guess I just thought "Wes died in late 60's, Joe seemed to take off around that time" My time lines are pretty loose
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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he gave one of Joe's records 4 stars in a downbeat blindfold test
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I'm surprised more of those cats didn't play together, but if you were busy touring around all the time it was not easy to be in the same place at the same time.
One of the more intriguing juxtapositions I've read about is Grant Green and George Benson. Apparently they did play together privately--George succeeded Grant in Jack McDuff's group, and Grant actually died en route to play at George Benson's club...but as far as I know they never played together in public or recorded together. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
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Correction: Grant Green walked into a gig where a young George Benson was playing and sat in. In the biography that his daughter wrote it is recorded that Grant got his ass handed to him. She records that Green was warned, "Don't tangle with that fast s@#t up there." Grant Green was an utterly amazing player--one of my absolute favorites (hence, "Greentone")--but Benson was _burning_, at that point. Benson was in awe of one of his idols (Green), but he wasn't going to get schooled by anybody.
FWIW, Benson has written that he used to mawkishly go around to an apartment where Wes Montgomery hung out and try to show him new stuff. Montgomery would smile, look at the other guys in the room, then blow Benson out of his socks with some _serious_ playing.
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Wes was a guest on a TV show and the host asked him which players he thought were really good. Wes replied that the guitar player in the house band for the show was one of the best. It was Joe Pass.
George Benson referred to Joe Pass as the "King of the 175."
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Great thread. Glad it was started. Learning something every day here.... ;o)
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Most guitarists don't play with one another, as a rule. Like most drummers don't or most bass players or pianists don't. Rarely is there the professional opportunity. More guitar players than those other instruments. But still. I rarely get together to just jam or do duets for instance. But it is intriguing. Very often the top dog doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about the kids coming up. Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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A very serious jazz drummer from here in New Jersey referenced that same show. He quoted Wes as saying, when the host of the show referred to him as one of the greatest jazz guitarists ever . . . that he wished he could play like Joe Pass. Conversely, I have no doubt that Joe would have returned the compliment the he wished he could play like Wes. That's what makes this jazz guitar stuff so great. Joe could never be Wes . . . and Wes could never be Joe. Originally Posted by Blues Fuse
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Both were quoted in interviews where they basically said that the other guy was it.
The interview with Pass is on Youtube, or was. He was being interviewed in a diner or something, anyway it was during the day and you could see out the window to the street behind Joe. The interviewer starting kissing his butt and saying that people think he's the greatest ever, etc. Joe gives him the "huh? no, no, no" look, and then states that he thinks that distinction goes to Wes.
Wes' quote came from an interview but I can't remember where I read it. I was surprised at Wes praise, but then I wasn't that familiar with Pass' career prior to the early 70s, I guess I'm still not.
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Wes could afford to be generous and give compliments anybody. He knew he had nothing to worry about!
I'm half joking, but seriously, Wes was untouchable on almost any level at the time. I think if you want to really play jazz as a part of a band/ ensemble, Wes is how it's done. Joe was incredible, but in different way. Anyway, Wes would think only good things if he heard Joe, Im sure. More important is what we think as guitarists, and who we choose to follow.
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This topic reminded me of a story that Pat Martino had told that ends up with 5 of the Giants of the Jazz Guitar world all standing on a Harlem street corner at 4:00am, then on to breakfast. Oh, to be the "fly on the chicken and waffles" at that breakfast table...
It also made me think of what a charmed and challenging life Pat has led.
Here's the YouTube Link :Last edited by Flat5; 07-28-2015 at 10:15 PM.
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awesome replies; thanks all
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I think that's generally true in jazz---not too many "twin guitar attacks" in jazz like in rock and blues. But the exceptions are nice: Herb Ellis and Joe Pass made several great records together. Herb and Barney Kessel performed together many times, and then there were the "Great Guitars" concerts with Charlie Byrd. Not your average situation but they were top-flight players. Originally Posted by henryrobinett
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I find this album interesting because Jim Hall and Jimmy Raney sound so different yet work so well together
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correct me if I am wrong.. but as far as i remember Benson told that he came across Wes and asked him to show some licks or something... and Wes said that he did not show things because whenever he had time he was too busy to learn himself.FWIW, Benson has written that he used to mawkishly go around to an apartment where Wes Montgomery hung out and try to show him new stuff. Montgomery would smile, look at the other guys in the room, then blow Benson out of his socks with some _serious_ playing.
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Why would he ever thought anything about him?
Do we really think about everything we hear or come across?
Wes belongs to different style of playing...
he might have admired by technical skills of Joe but I think they are quite far from each other musically...
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Cool, I didn't know about that record. I have an album with Raney and Kenny Burrell. Also worth hearing. Originally Posted by Irez87
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Great thread!
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You think a guitar player is going to hear Joe Pass, especially in those days and times, and literally just pay it no mind like grocery store music? Give me a break. You said may have admired his technical skill...so that's not a thought? Don't know where you got the idea I was comparing their musical stylings Originally Posted by Jonah
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I didn't say anything about 'grocery store music...'
I just think though they're both jazz players they belong to musical worlds different enough...
What would he have thought if he heard Segovia? Probably he would have shown his respect .. but what else is there to think about?
Of course Joe is closer to Wes than Segovia but still.. you see I think a great deal of Joe's fame is connected with his (very wise by the way) idea to develope solo playing technique...
He has great feel and timing too - really great
But musically he's not so unique to my mind .. often absorbed by his own virtuousity - and it is not bad! - but also very different from what Wes did...
(please, do not take as a personal offence and I really like some of his performances)
and it seems that musically he is very far from Wes - different way of thinking.. so probably the best thing Wes could have done is to express his amiration with technique for his fellow-musician..
ok we can call it a thoght
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right, so it sounds like you're in the "would be respectful, but not blown away" camp. So that still adds to the discussion Originally Posted by Jonah
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o no...
I am sure he thought: oh man... and I always tried to understand why we have so many fingers on right hand...
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