Pasquale Grasso

[sgcim]

PG sounds so much better when he has a piano behind him to define the changes he's playing over.
With a trio setting, all he has is an out of tune bass (Gunther Schuller said quite correctly that it is impossible to play in tune on a bass violin, because of the huge distance between chromatic notes) to play the chords behind him, and because he is a completely linear player when he solos (like his inspiration for his technique, Chuck Wayne), the result is so nebulous, that it is a chore to really appreciate what he's doing.
He's the complete opposite of Ed Bickert,Jim Hall and Lennie Breau who were always incorporating chords into their solos, and the harmony is clearly defined (especially on up tempos where it's even more difficult for a bass player to play in tune). One pretty well known bass player friend of mine said that George Mraz is probably the only bass player that had no intonation problems.
Other strictly line players, Grant Green, Wes, Raney, Farlow, Benson, Martino, etc.. rarely recorded without a piano or organ (or another guitar) behind them, because they were aware that on up tempo bop things, the basic progression is so nebulous if the bass player is walking, the result is going to be underwhelming, no matter how brilliant their lines were.
A pianist of course has his left hand to provide the harmony.
In all of PG's other performances I've heard, he was either playing in a trio or quartet with his brother, and the lack of harmony behind him made it difficult to appreciate what PG was doing, with that dark, bass dominant tone that all Chuck Wayne technicians have to employ to make the technique work making it even more muddled sounding.
But on the Emmet's Place concert, one could really appreciate the incredible stuff he's got going on linearly.
,

[wintermoon]

^
This. He's pretty brilliant in general but I really like his single line playing here.

[Clint 55]

Wow. Haven't listened to him before but it seems he's surpassed Joe Pass. The music has to be quite wankory for me to not enjoy music that is impressive technique wise. His playing seems plenty musical to me. Imo people get butt hurt about shredders and have to make up excuses why the music doesn't have merit. I'll try to come up with an example where it's technique at the expense of music in my ears.

[wintermoon]

"Haven't listened to him before but it seems he's surpassed Joe Pass."

Whoa, easy there. Let's see what happens down the road.

[Clint 55]

Comparing the solo playing: his chord melody is more intricate, he plays cleaner embellishments probably at the same speed as Joe, but he plays in time. Joe would be rubato all over the place on his solo playing. Just on first glance I think he's a bit more beastly! I enjoy it more, anyways.

[wintermoon]

I never had speed as much of a criteria for a player otherwise I'd throw my Jim Hall records out.
But if you prefer PG, so be it.

[Clint 55]

I prefer the old skool type playing. I don't go in for much of the new players. But this guy has epic technique, plus the musical, melodic influence of the old style. On first glance I really like his playing. Just my opinion, I think he's great.

[steve burchfield]

Just think of the work ethic and self discipline he must have.

[Christian Miller]

When I saw PG live I was quite surprised at how little he punctuates his improvised playing with chords. He seems to me a primarily linear improviser even when playing solo.

I got the distinct impression that the pianistic stuff in his playing was much more arranged, he’d play an intricate arrangement of Hallucinations or something and then go into a single note solo.

I don’t personally have any trouble hearing the changes in his lines.

The thing I wondered is how much cross over appeal he has apart from guitarists, but I get the feeling musicians in general appreciate his musicianship.

[Clint 55]

I'm pretty sure he transcribed the coda from the same performance that I did.

What is the coda to Round Midnight?

[sgcim]

When I saw PG live I was quite surprised at how little he punctuates his improvised playing with chords. He seems to me a primarily linear improviser even when playing solo.

I got the distinct impression that the pianistic stuff in his playing was much more arranged, he’d play an intricate arrangement of Hallucinations or something and then go into a single note solo.

I don’t personally have any trouble hearing the changes in his lines.

The thing I wondered is how much cross over appeal he has apart from guitarists, but I get the feeling musicians in general appreciate his musicianship.

It was more like the muddy sound of his guitar and the bass on his early videos (along with the muddy sound of the recordings themselves) resulting in a generally ill defined overall sound
. The percussive comping of Emmett, and the better overall sound quality of the concert improved that situation a great deal.
The Chuck Wayne picking technique he uses (as well as other players, like Mark Elf, Carl Barry, Jack Wilkins and others) enables him to play things that would be impossible to play using alternate picking technique, but the need to raise the bass tone control to effectively use that technique makes for an overload of bass frequencies when just accompanied by string bass (especially on up tempo things. where it's more difficult to punctuate solos with chords). IOW, he needs a percussive chord player to give things more definition.

[Christian Miller]

It was more like the muddy sound of his guitar and the bass on his early videos (along with the muddy sound of the recordings themselves) resulting in a generally ill defined overall sound
. The percussive comping of Emmett, and the better overall sound quality of the concert improved that situation a great deal.
The Chuck Wayne picking technique he uses (as well as other players, like Mark Elf, Carl Barry, Jack Wilkins and others) enables him to play things that would be impossible to play using alternate picking technique, but the need to raise the bass tone control to effectively use that technique makes for an overload of bass frequencies when just accompanied by string bass (especially on up tempo things. where it's more difficult to punctuate solos with chords). IOW, he needs a percussive chord player to give things more definition.

I don’t understand why it would follow that you would need a bassier sound to make the CW technique work?

But now you mention it I have to say Ben Monder (a student of CW) also has quite a dark sound, almost muffled.

If I understand correctly it’s essentially two way economy picking right? So- Why does that necessitate a darker sound?

When I heard PG live I was struck by how low he kept the volume level; under the level of the drums, about as loud as an unmiked upright piano - much quieter than I would have the guts to play. At no point did I feel he was competing with the bass. The sound was very transparent.

Anwyay, PG’s tone... it’s not the way I would choose to sculpt the tone. It’s very much fundamental heavy, he tends not only to dial that in but plays over the neck pick up, and fingering his lines in higher positions on the neck where you get that sound naturally too.

I tend not to do that myself; I think I want an acoustic sort of tone ideally, a bit of cut and upper partial complexity in the character of the note. I have mixed success getting this...

But you know, PG is a guitar genius, and I’m a dweeb on the internet haha. But we all have our tastes as to what we’re shooting for. PG is clearly hearing this sound. And it sits in a good place in the mix with a quartet or a tiro, which may be why he can play quieter.

Barry Harris has a very dark, covered sound too.

[Clint 55]

Is he running his neck pickup straight to the jack? And then dialing his sound with the amp?

[David B]

Is he running his neck pickup straight to the jack? And then dialing his sound with the amp?

Volume and tone controls are built into the guitar's tailpiece.

[sgosnell]

Grasso can be hard to listen to sometimes, because of his low volume. I've stopped trying to watch his Mezzrow streams because of that, and because I grow exceedingly tired of the onslaught of poorly intonated bowed bass solos. I can't hear the guitar, and I don't like the sound of the bass and drums, so I just don't watch. The video from Emmet's place was excellent, though.

[sgcim]

I don’t understand why it would follow that you would need a bassier sound to make the CW technique work?

But now you mention it I have to say Ben Monder (a student of CW) also has quite a dark sound, almost muffled.

If I understand correctly it’s essentially two way economy picking right? So- Why does that necessitate a darker sound?

When I heard PG live I was struck by how low he kept the volume level; under the level of the drums, about as loud as an unmiked upright piano - much quieter than I would have the guts to play. At no point did I feel he was competing with the bass. The sound was very transparent.

Anwyay, PG’s tone... it’s not the way I would choose to sculpt the tone. It’s very much fundamental heavy, he tends not only to dial that in but plays over the neck pick up, and fingering his lines in higher positions on the neck where you get that sound naturally too.

I tend not to do that myself; I think I want an acoustic sort of tone ideally, a bit of cut and upper partial complexity in the character of the note. I have mixed success getting this...

But you know, PG is a guitar genius, and I’m a dweeb on the internet haha. But we all have our tastes as to what we’re shooting for. PG is clearly hearing this sound. And it sits in a good place in the mix with a quartet or a tiro, which may be why he can play quieter.

Barry Harris has a very dark, covered sound too.

CW developed the first systematic method of economy picking, and for it to work, you have to emphasize the bass tone control, otherwise you'd hear the pick sweeping against the strings. Imagine how that would sound with a bright sound. With that rock and/or roll you kids love, you can get away with that by using distortion. CW never played metal, AFAIK.
CW used to insist that his alt. picking students not take a gig for a year, until they perfected his method of picking! It was the inverse of Johnny Smith's plectrum technique, and JS never mentioned CW once when talking about other players...
It's too bad he had to base his playing solely on that technique, because his early stuff sounded quite swinging.
But his playing lacked melodic invention; I can't even sing any phrases from CW's records, when Raney, Farlow , Puma, Garcia, Burrell, Green etc...were linear/melodic geniuses. One time CW said to Raney, "You know, there are not too many of us jazz greats left". Raney just looked at him with his mouth open.
Still, CW contributed a lot to the evolution of jazz guitar, and I tend to go overboard on him, because my first teacher hated the way he played, and he kind of brainwashed me into hating his way of playing. One time my teacher beat him out in an audition, because they said CW's playing was too busy. It kind of goes with the technique, because once you start sliding that pick across the strings, it gets hard to stop. Notes just keep bubbling out

Luckily PG just studied with a CW student (they're all over the place), and then went to barry harris, who got him thinking along more musical lines.
I'd still rather hear Luigi than PG, because there's not that quality of sameness about his blowing.

[Alter]

Great player. It's been a while since I've enjoyed a newer jazz guitarist that much. I really love the old fashioned vibe and playing he has! He makes you want to pick up a guitar and play

[Christian Miller]

CW developed the first systematic method of economy picking, and for it to work, you have to emphasize the bass tone control, otherwise you'd hear the pick sweeping against the strings. Imagine how that would sound with a bright sound. With that rock and/or roll you kids love, you can get away with that by using distortion. CW never played metal, AFAIK.
CW used to insist that his alt. picking students not take a gig for a year, until they perfected his method of picking! It was the inverse of Johnny Smith's plectrum technique, and JS never mentioned CW once when talking about other players...
It's too bad he had to base his playing solely on that technique, because his early stuff sounded quite swinging.
But his playing lacked melodic invention; I can't even sing any phrases from CW's records, when Raney, Farlow , Puma, Garcia, Burrell, Green etc...were linear/melodic geniuses. One time CW said to Raney, "You know, there are not too many of us jazz greats left". Raney just looked at him with his mouth open.
Still, CW contributed a lot to the evolution of jazz guitar, and I tend to go overboard on him, because my first teacher hated the way he played, and he kind of brainwashed me into hating his way of playing. One time my teacher beat him out in an audition, because they said CW's playing was too busy. It kind of goes with the technique, because once you start sliding that pick across the strings, it gets hard to stop. Notes just keep bubbling out

Luckily PG just studied with a CW student (they're all over the place), and then went to barry harris, who got him thinking along more musical lines.
I'd still rather hear Luigi than PG, because there's not that quality of sameness about his blowing.

Yeah it still doesn’t follow for me. I economy pick a lot. I mean no one really cares how I play lol, but I don’t feel economy picking is problematic tonally, you just need to use the pick in the right way IMO...

Anyway sounds like CW had his system all worked out, and sounds like he was pretty set in his ways about it, and you had to sign up for the whole thing.

And I think that can sometimes lead to people doing things because that’s what they were told to do in a very set way. It’s very common in music education actually. It’s very classical.

But then look what PG’s been able to do with it. He’s a very ‘proper’ systematised player for sure. Not to mention all the other players he taught. So it’s clearly a very effective solution, but there seem to be many guys in jazz who presented their solution as THE solution. It can get very cult of the personality; sounds like CW bought into his own publicity haha.

people still do it a bit. I try not to do that too much these days lol.

You mention Jimmy Raney who had such an eclectic approach to picking; just focussed on the music. It’s so easy to get technical about the guitar because it is SOO hard to get those hands working together well... but I’ve found that music itself is a great teacher.

[don_oz]

The difference between the mezzrow and smalls streams and emmet's streams are down to the fact that emmet mic's everything up and smalls and mezzrow have like one mic for everything. Also, Pasquale had just bought that amp like a week ago and was really happy with the fact that he could play with a drummer with this amp and not worry about not being loud enough!

[sgcim]

Yeah it still doesn’t follow for me. I economy pick a lot. I mean no one really cares how I play lol, but I don’t feel economy picking is problematic tonally, you just need to use the pick in the right way IMO...

Anyway sounds like CW had his system all worked out, and sounds like he was pretty set in his ways about it, and you had to sign up for the whole thing.

And I think that can sometimes lead to people doing things because that’s what they were told to do in a very set way. It’s very common in music education actually. It’s very classical.

But then look what PG’s been able to do with it. He’s a very ‘proper’ systematised player for sure. Not to mention all the other players he taught. So it’s clearly a very effective solution, but there seem to be many guys in jazz who presented their solution as THE solution. It can get very cult of the personality; sounds like CW bought into his own publicity haha.



people still do it a bit. I try not to do that too much these days lol.

You mention Jimmy Raney who had such an eclectic approach to picking; just focussed on the music. It’s so easy to get technical about the guitar because it is SOO hard to get those hands working together well... but I’ve found that music itself is a great teacher.

Yea, the fact that both Farlow and Raney NEVER practiced scales showed that it was really a matter of how Long they practiced, not a system devised by classical musicians to play the music of the 'Masters', that helped them get the chops to concoct the wonderful lines they played.
One of farlow's greatest lines was simply a scale going up and down. It had to do with where he placed the scale lines that made it so incredible.
I've written a big band arr. of a melody that only consists of Farlow and Costa's lines, and it worked out pretty well. I wonder if the 13 horn players are going to realize that they're playing a 'composition' that consists of fragments of farlow and Costa solos?
I once heard a film composer steal Jimmy Page's great opening solo line to Stairway in his film score, played by a synth!

The sustain that turning the bass tone control up causes, facilitates the CW technique in making sweeping and slurs sound much smoother and easier to play than the opposite tone settings. Again, it's similar to the way rockers use distortion.
The 'diarrhea effect' was once summed up by Billy Bauer in his own back-handed way when offering a critique of one of CW's most well-known students. He said, "Yeah, that ***** **** sure plays a lotta notes".
Then again, I've got a bootleg CD of CW and Joe Puma playing at a club in that guitar duo they had for a few years, and CW tears it up on one tune that has the effect of a nuclear explosion, so it can really work when you play great ideas.

[sgcim]

The difference between the mezzrow and smalls streams and emmet's streams are down to the fact that emmet mic's everything up and smalls and mezzrow have like one mic for everything. Also, Pasquale had just bought that amp like a week ago and was really happy with the fact that he could play with a drummer with this amp and not worry about not being loud enough!

What amp did PG buy?

[steve burchfield]

Nashvilles great jazz guitarist Mel Deal was a good friend to Jimmy Rainy and introduced me to him right before a concert.He had just had foot surgery and was wearing a cast but he played Great anyhow! I remember working on the Out Of Nowhere solo a long time. Last time I checked around Christmas Jamey Aebersold had autographed J. Rainey album covers for 9$ .Might look nice on a practice room wall. Oh I got my D copy amp today. I think I like it well enough to keep it.I bought a Boss Reverb pedal to put in the EFX loop.Works pretty good. Happy pickin folks!!! I remember the first time I ever heard the vocal version of Out Of Nowhere on the radio not expecting it.Sure gave me the creeps! You came to me..............

[David B]

What amp did PG buy?

Gibson GA-18

[David B]

A heads-up for members in the UK and France that Pasquale will be touring with Samara Joy this July. They will be in London on 6th July at Ronnie Scott's and in Paris on 7th and 8th July at Duc De Lombards.

LONDON: Samara Joy with Pasquale Grasso Trio - Ronnie Scott's

PARIS: https://ducdeslombards.com/fr/l-agen...le-grasso-trio

[Christian Miller]

This is great

This is a bit shreddy shred shred, but undeniably impressive (380bpm if I’m right)