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My favorite is definitely Keith Jarrett and his standards trio. Love the way those guys interact with each other. As outstanding as Keith is, those guys are just such a "unit". I don't feel like anyone's playing backup to anything.
Jarrett does so many weird things from fussing at his audience to making those distractingly loud and annoying utterances. Honestly, I hate artistic pretense, and I swear, I want to slap people when they say that some things are worth putting up with for "art", but with that trio, I'm 100% guilty of doing it myself. For me, their music is worth it.
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09-05-2014 07:45 PM
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Art Tatum should be on the list, but Bill Evans Sunday at the Village Vanguard with Scott Lafaro on bass is a masterpiece.
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I was right!! It was 1960! I guess I know my Trane periods!
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McCoy is definitely one of my favorites. Chick Corea. Jarrett. Cedar Walton. Herbie Hancock.
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Phineas Newborn, Art Tatum though dated. I'm seen Corea about nine times, Jarrett three, Herbie twice, Phineas twice. Bill Evans once (another favorite but different).
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Ahmad Jamal one of my fav's that I have seen live.
Also saw Cedar Walton in a club, he smoked.
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So many great pianists, it's hard to pick the best or even a favorite. Some of the ones I keep going back to are:
Jason Moran
Kenny Barron
Randy Weston
Ahmad Jamal
Mal Waldron
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That video of Oscar's "master class" on other pianists' technique was superb. I would call him brilliant, but that might be understating it a bit. And he sings like the 'immortal' NKC.
When I was playing along with the videos, including that cool one with Getz and Coltrane, I could not help but reflect how guitarists can never "compete" with the piano, if only because Oscar can sound ten notes polyphonically with his ten fingers, while we can produce only six. But then again, the guitar is more portable.
I was struck by that video of Getz and Coltrane with Oscar and the cool rhythm section how different in terms of roots were the sax players. Getz much more of a swing player, Coltrane with sheets of notes and a few squawks more bebop. And Oscar's solo with his vocal scatting. Cool stuff. But, I think some of the bebop players just hung more together in their sometimes insular way. It does annoy me when people try to elevate one style over another, like it is not just an evolution of the music or a branch of a fabulously rich historical tree of music. Bebop is fine but it is just another style. And frankly, Oscar with his ten fingers and incredible technique could play rings around most anyone else on the planet.
I would love to read more about Joe's relationship with Oscar all those years, but I have heard Joe's opinion in interviews. Certainly one struck me when he was asked about how a guitarist should approach playing with a pianist like Oscar. And Joe was clear - you defer to the piano, because if nothing else, it is larger and louder. I never heard him speak of arguments. At least the guitar is polyphonic in its own way by comparison with the melody horns. So we are something intermediate in terms of our ability to play a bass and rhythm along with our melody.
But, I have to admit as a self-taught pianist, I always regretted not starting with piano as my first instrument studied seriously. There is a part of me that always wanted to be the guy who walks into a party, sits down at the piano, and just slays some beautiful young woman leaning languidly at the end - like a movie script from the Forties. Play it again, Sam...
Jay
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The link below is to a BBC 1980 concert performance with Oscar, Count Basie, Joe Pass, Neils Pedersen on bass, and Martin Drew on drums. This performance and concert just blows me away on so many levels. Truly remarkable.
First, one impression I have of Oscar and William Basie is a profound admiration not only for their intelligence and superb talent, but also for the depth of their humanity. Essentially, Oscar is the host of the show and brings on Joe Pass to play a solo bit and then together on a few tunes. He dialogues with Joe about the music and it is fascinating stuff. Joe demonstrates not only his monstrous chops solo but also his cool sense of humor and smarts. Then Oscar shows a recorded thing with Count Basie where these two giants talk and play together beautifully.
Oscar speaks of the dialogues they had on various occasions playing together, talking about their influences and great musicians like Art Tatum. Oscar brings up the stories about their relationship and the intimidation he felt in the presence of Tatum. So insightful and so human a dialogue. And Basie reveals his humor and sly intelligence that is so joyful to hear. Great duet performances.
And at the conclusion Oscar plays with Neils , Martin, and Joe a fabulous outro piece that Joe just tears up as a soloist and comping. This is not only one great master class of jazz, but something more in terms of a historical document of the giants in whose shadows we walk. Humbling experience.
Jay
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Great discussion, some random thoughts.
When I saw the title of the thread, I started to think about the piano "giants" in Jazz. So, I can't offer a best ever opinion, but Art Tatum would definitely seem to cast some of the longest shadows over the players who followed him.
I had to chuckle about the views on OP. It brought to mind the story about when Barney Kessel joined the trio. Apparently, when it came to the space to solo, Kessel quote "eyed it up the way a Great Dane looks at a butcher's counter" LOL. This was, apparently, a source of considerable frustration to OP, and great amusement to Ray Brown.
Personally, I agree that the critics are probably less kind to OP down to a "so called" lack of "cool". The guy's technique was legendary. He's not the only Jazzman to get flack for being successful.
Nat Cole. He was truly wonderful.
It's funny too, how some players are really highly regarded for their role within a band. Al Haig with Bird (stunning).Red Garland with Miles. Tommy Flanagan played on some of the greatest Jazz sessions ever recorded. No-one's mentioned Hank Jones. His record "Urbanity" is one of my all time favourites.
Bud Powell. Was he the greatest Bebop pianist ?. Perhaps he never achieved his full potential due to the terrible circumstances he encountered. Michael (Dodo) Marmarossa's was another tragic story in Jazz, but a great player.
Then there's the composers. Horace Silver left a huge contribution to the Jazz repertoire.
Actually, I'm realizing that I might have more to say than space permits. In that spirit, I'd like to offer this clip.
Please watch to the end.
Last edited by pubylakeg; 09-06-2014 at 06:29 AM.
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Well...since the Village Vanguard sets are my favorite jazz albums ever (Waltz with Debby and Live at the Village Vanguard), I would say that Bill Evans is my favorite pianist of all time.
Of course, I love OP, Cole, Tatum, Monk, Chick, Jarrett, Gene Harris, and the ever obscure Bobby Enriquez, but it's going to be Evans for me.
Holy cow! In my first draft I left out McCoy Tyner! Insert Tyner right after Evans--Oops!
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Bill Evans is up there for me - but love Shirley Horn - am in the main working with singers at present and there is a lot of learning to be had from listening to Shirley Horn - in terms of how to arrange and frame a song; how to comp and how to support a singer - obviously in her case herself.
Like Evans she has a classical background & again like Evans Miles Davis was a big fan of her playing
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Shoot! I forgot Hancock. It's still Bill Evans, though.
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Haha! Was just thinking the exact same thing! How could I have left out McCoy from my own list, especially when there are days where I feel as though he is my absolute favourite of them all!
Originally Posted by Greentone
Then there are days when I think the same thing about this unknown current young guy who has just started getting the attention of some pretty big names lately, In case you're interested, here's a 10 minute clip of improv based on a standard, things really start to warm up half way through....
Last edited by princeplanet; 09-06-2014 at 11:31 AM.
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best gig by a million miles i ever went to was an oscar, ray, herb quartet in Glasgow
and i don't listen to him that much - or think of him in the same category as e.g. Tatum, Powell, Monk, Evans
regarding the OP gig i went to: i have never been in a room with that many people ALL of whom were deliriously happy and utterly captivated
his way of shaping a set was amazing. i'm lucky if i can shape 16 bars - OP was interested in shaping sets of music.
it wasn't just the best jazz gig i ever went to, it was the best thing i ever went to. i'm a shakespeare fanatic, for example - but i never went to a shakespeare gig anywhere that grabbed me and the audience as entirely as the OP gig.
i bet he did it every time he played - whatever the circumstances (i.e. got through to people - got to them - drove them a bit nuts even) - from about the age of 10? or 7?
i'm delighted to hear lots of serious jazz lovers arguing his case strongly. i particularly strongly agree with mr robinett that swinging like oscar did is by far the hippest thing you can possibly do. (there was a herby hancock gig the very next night in the very next venue - and i went to that too. i love herby hancock. but the gig was utterly dead in comparison to the oscar gig - and by 'dead' i mean that there was no vibe in the room generated by the playing (sort of thing).
so is there any good reason to think of him in a lower category than the total greats?
i think there is. its because there's more to the music than entertainment - even very intense entertainment. charlie parker is surely the best example - but you can pick any great player/singer you like. one of the things they can and do do is make you feel difficult things. parker's playing on say parker's mood or bird of paradise isn't just entertaining or uplifting - its troubling. (i'm not saying those performances are troubling - i'm saying that as well as being dazzled and thrilled one is also strangely troubled or disrupted by them - there are aspects to them that are difficult for us). we tend not to watch King Lear to be entertained - though it does 'take you away' and it is thrilling, its also not an easy ride - its challenging and demanding.
i think e.g. bill evans constantly troubles at the same time as he delights - and billie holiday - you don't consume that much beauty in the phrasing as a listener without finding oneself unsettled as well as thrilled.
its very hard not to sound totally pompous talking about this - but there's nothing pompous about bill evans or charlie parker or billie holiday.
even when oscar plays something heavy and slow (which he loves to do of course) - its still first and foremost entertaining. part of the reason two thousand people can be instantly captivated by him is that there's a sort of circus element to the whole thing. i remember being constantly amazed that he could do what he was doing at the piano (not just by his facility but by his sheer touch).
but ultimately - its not about the player its about what they're playing and the world they're playing it about
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Bill Evans is my personal favorite. I love his melancholy conception. He's so incredible.
OP is just swinging and marvelous. I didn't know that there was any antipathy towards him. I've never heard that before, even in music school environments. I thought everyone agreed that he was the king of swing piano.
I can't imagine modern jazz without McCoy Tyner. He was a huge part of the Coltrane revolution.
Art Tatum is like the Babe Ruth of jazz piano.
Of the modern guys, I really love Peter Martin's work. I'm not the biggest fan of Meldau but you can't deny his genius and virtuosity.
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I always liked Tete Montoliu, he bops and swings hard and plays long flowing bouncy lines. He played with Dex for quite a while on his European stint. Oh, by the way he is blind.
An anorak is a coat and wellies are boots...blokes or birds.
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Thanks. I loved Tete too!
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There have been times when I've heard Oscar Peterson and thought, "this guy is the best jazz player of all time."
Because of his drive, his energy, his infectious joy in playing, and the amazing melodies he spins out.
He does sort of sit on an island, where you can't really picture him as an accompanist -- certainly from his 40s onward he pretty much was always the leader.
He and Tatum are in a separate category from all other pianists in terms of overall skills.
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I'm surprised nobody mentioned yet about the fact that OP had 6 fingers on each hand.
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Keith Jarrett. I also love Bill Evans and Lyle Mays.
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oscar peterson is great, but there's a reason that his great groups don't usually have drummers (and if they do, they're not too busy).
that clip with oscar peterson playing with Coltrane is a prime example. when Coltrane is soloing, Oscar does not stop playing the piano for even an instant
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Oscar was brilliant; Oscar was great; Oscar was not spare.
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I agree with you there. Originally Posted by dasein
I liked the trio-without-drummer setup, and not just for him but Nat Cole. When a band can swing without a drummer, it's special. (Gypsy groups and bluegrass bands achieve this too.)
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I much preferred the trio with Ray Brown and Ed Thigpen on drums. I never really liked the trios without drums. Amd never really liked him playing with guitar players. Sometimes it was nice, but I never preferred it over the piano/bass/drums format.
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